6 ms·

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

heurisko 5y ago
Do you have some figures, e.g. rent for one bedroom apartment, cost of an average meal in a restaurant, cost of a season travel pass? Because otherwise it's difficult to judge. I sometimes read other countries complain about their awful rail system, and it turns out "the trains are sometimes 5 minutes late on Wednesdays", as they're used to punctual service at all other times.
- mathverse 5y ago
  You can check numbeo for this. For me this was NEVER relevant. Only what mattered was disposable income.
  - heurisko 5y ago
    I find databases regarding cost of living to go quickly out of date. But looking at Graz, Austria, a 80,000, even if gross, euro salary would provide a very good standard of living. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz
    - mathverse 5y ago
      Who wants to live in Graz?
      - heurisko 5y ago
        There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub. https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub. Graz is an amazing city for quality of life, nature and socializing, and is great if you want to be employed in academia your whole life. On the IT careers side, it's a wasteland of conservative hardware/automotive companies and IT service companies(cost centers) that only deal with the local market, or at best the DACH zone, and is therefore worse on pay than some Eastern European cities that deal with the international scene (Krakow, Warsaw, Bucharest, Cluj). Almost no product based IT companies who deal internationally. Most tech jobs in Austria are where the money and infrastructure is, Vienna. >a security hub https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at Outside of a handful of low-paid TU students and post-docs(basically academia), I think I can count the number of people employed there, on the fingers of my hand. AFAIK they aren't hiring anyone at the moment. Other of massive PR, no job openings, no investments, no tech companies and nothing significant materialized from that, just a few partnerships for PhD/research positions. Hardly a "security hub". A hub would mean you have a cluster of multiple private companies hiring people there to work on commercial solutions alongside research partnerships with universities. That's not what's happened.
mschuster91 5y ago
> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university - housing costs are drastically lower than the US - no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions - way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less - we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off.
- mathverse 5y ago
  >- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) >- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university I dont have children? And judging by birth rates a lot of people dont as well. >- housing costs are drastically lower than the US Are housing costs relative to tech salaries really lower than the US? >- no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions Again as a young, ambitious individual in Tech I would rather have more disposable income than rely on a ponzi scheme that's the gov-backed pension system. >- way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less And we live in cramped,tiny,noisy,apartments...I would rather commute from a suburb and have a house with a garden. >- we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off. Unlimited PTOs or european level PTOs are very common in US tech companies.
CalRobert 5y ago
If you're European, it seems like your best bet, if you can pull it off, is to: * get your nice free college in Europe * go make a mountain of cash in California * come back and retire in your 30's and start a family. but that depends on a lot of things going right. I'd rather raise a family in most of Europe, and retire in Europe. But I can't deny that if I'd stayed in California I'd probably have $1-2 million more. And the tax structures here make FIRE _very_ difficult, depending on where you are. Portugal is appealing if your income is foreign (check out the NHR program), and Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall.
- b3orn 5y ago
  > Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall. It's 801€ per year, but you can deduct losses up to 20k.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here. Austria is, with few exceptions, a very bad market for tech/IT careers. Oversupply of talent but low VC investments, small market with focus on networking, culture that values middle managers way more than ICs, archaic culture with too much emphasis on titles and degrees, high taxes, poor fiber infrastructure in cities, hyper conservative cash-based society, inflexibility to remote work and freelancing for foreign companies due to complex government bureaucracy, high real estate prices(for buying), non-competes are legal and enforceable, all-in contracts with zero overtime pay, 25 vacation days standard for most tech workers, company benefits are non existent unless you count free coffee and a banana, companies focusing more on hiring seniors and rarely hiring or training juniors, almost no product based SW companies with the IT industry being mostly service based (in other words, a cost center); I could go on. Quality of life is great though but tech careers here are a joke, even Eastern Europe has better and more exiting opportunities now due to the influx of outsourcing from US/UK unicorns.
yread 5y ago
For me the biggest advantage is the relative equality. Not that there are no billionaires but if I go to a restaurant I don't have to feel bad for the waiter because they are getting a fair salary not that much lower than mine. And they don't have to feel super envious of my tech salary. And it's nice that if something bad happens to them (or me!) they will be taken care of - with healthcare or social housing as needed. From over here, US seems constantly at an edge of civil war/revolution. Lots of desperate people that jump at the first opportunity to riot and loot stuff.

heurisko 5y ago

Do you have some figures, e.g. rent for one bedroom apartment, cost of an average meal in a restaurant, cost of a season travel pass? Because otherwise it's difficult to judge. I sometimes read other countries complain about their awful rail system, and it turns out "the trains are sometimes 5 minutes late on Wednesdays", as they're used to punctual service at all other times.

mathverse 5y ago
You can check numbeo for this. For me this was NEVER relevant. Only what mattered was disposable income.
- heurisko 5y ago
  I find databases regarding cost of living to go quickly out of date. But looking at Graz, Austria, a 80,000, even if gross, euro salary would provide a very good standard of living. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz
  - mathverse 5y ago
    Who wants to live in Graz?
    - heurisko 5y ago
      There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub. https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub. Graz is an amazing city for quality of life, nature and socializing, and is great if you want to be employed in academia your whole life. On the IT careers side, it's a wasteland of conservative hardware/automotive companies and IT service companies(cost centers) that only deal with the local market, or at best the DACH zone, and is therefore worse on pay than some Eastern European cities that deal with the international scene (Krakow, Warsaw, Bucharest, Cluj). Almost no product based IT companies who deal internationally. Most tech jobs in Austria are where the money and infrastructure is, Vienna. >a security hub https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at Outside of a handful of low-paid TU students and post-docs(basically academia), I think I can count the number of people employed there, on the fingers of my hand. AFAIK they aren't hiring anyone at the moment. Other of massive PR, no job openings, no investments, no tech companies and nothing significant materialized from that, just a few partnerships for PhD/research positions. Hardly a "security hub". A hub would mean you have a cluster of multiple private companies hiring people there to work on commercial solutions alongside research partnerships with universities. That's not what's happened.

mschuster91 5y ago

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university - housing costs are drastically lower than the US - no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions - way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less - we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off.

mathverse 5y ago
>- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) >- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university I dont have children? And judging by birth rates a lot of people dont as well. >- housing costs are drastically lower than the US Are housing costs relative to tech salaries really lower than the US? >- no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions Again as a young, ambitious individual in Tech I would rather have more disposable income than rely on a ponzi scheme that's the gov-backed pension system. >- way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less And we live in cramped,tiny,noisy,apartments...I would rather commute from a suburb and have a house with a garden. >- we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off. Unlimited PTOs or european level PTOs are very common in US tech companies.

CalRobert 5y ago

If you're European, it seems like your best bet, if you can pull it off, is to: * get your nice free college in Europe * go make a mountain of cash in California * come back and retire in your 30's and start a family. but that depends on a lot of things going right. I'd rather raise a family in most of Europe, and retire in Europe. But I can't deny that if I'd stayed in California I'd probably have $1-2 million more. And the tax structures here make FIRE _very_ difficult, depending on where you are. Portugal is appealing if your income is foreign (check out the NHR program), and Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall.

b3orn 5y ago
> Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall. It's 801€ per year, but you can deduct losses up to 20k.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here. Austria is, with few exceptions, a very bad market for tech/IT careers. Oversupply of talent but low VC investments, small market with focus on networking, culture that values middle managers way more than ICs, archaic culture with too much emphasis on titles and degrees, high taxes, poor fiber infrastructure in cities, hyper conservative cash-based society, inflexibility to remote work and freelancing for foreign companies due to complex government bureaucracy, high real estate prices(for buying), non-competes are legal and enforceable, all-in contracts with zero overtime pay, 25 vacation days standard for most tech workers, company benefits are non existent unless you count free coffee and a banana, companies focusing more on hiring seniors and rarely hiring or training juniors, almost no product based SW companies with the IT industry being mostly service based (in other words, a cost center); I could go on. Quality of life is great though but tech careers here are a joke, even Eastern Europe has better and more exiting opportunities now due to the influx of outsourcing from US/UK unicorns.

yread 5y ago

For me the biggest advantage is the relative equality. Not that there are no billionaires but if I go to a restaurant I don't have to feel bad for the waiter because they are getting a fair salary not that much lower than mine. And they don't have to feel super envious of my tech salary. And it's nice that if something bad happens to them (or me!) they will be taken care of - with healthcare or social housing as needed. From over here, US seems constantly at an edge of civil war/revolution. Lots of desperate people that jump at the first opportunity to riot and loot stuff.