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This is already affecting websites and web apps. At least all of our customers are moving away from Google Analytics and many try to also get rid of other Goog

This is already affecting websites and web apps. At least all of our customers are moving away from Google Analytics and many try to also get rid of other Google services like fonts and maps. I'm very interested to see what this changes in other european countries.

mrweasel 5y ago
We can't sell AWS consulting services to anyone right now, haven't been able to for over a year, almost two I think. Non of our clients trust Amazon right now. The claims from AWS is that it's fine to host EU data in AWS, but very few companies are willing to risk that.
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
  I mean, they have EU datacenters... the issue with Google Analytics is that this data can be moved through other datacenters. This was one of the ways the NSA programs worked... just tap the google lines which were unencrypted and slurp the data as it moved from datacenter to datacenter.
  - BjoernKW 5y ago
    > I mean, they have EU datacenters That doesn't matter anymore. According to the relatively recent ECJ ruling mentioned in the article you're not allowed to transfer any PII to companies that are in any way affiliated with a US-based entity (e.g., by virtue of having a US-based parent company), which clearly is the case for Amazon and AWS. It doesn't stop there. According to some privacy experts, even a third party just having a US-based supplier might be construed as a customer of that third party being in violation of GDPR, at which point we'd basically have to cease all economic activity.
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      Go GDPR for the win! I like the goal of privacy, but I won't be sad to see the ridiculous GDPR law implode.
      - mrweasel 5y ago
        That’s a weird attitude, at its core the GDPR is simply about keeping track of data, and ensuring that it’s not used for anything the users didn’t consent to. I’m having a hard time seeing how the rules could be any different. Remember that the GDPR is also result of companies looking at the cookie law and deciding “fuck it, let’s find a loop hole and not change anything”.
        jtbayly 5y ago
        Oh, I don't know, maybe writing it so that it doesn't mean companies in the EU "basically have to cease all economic activity"? Or writing it so that it doesn't claim to tell me what I have to do with my website when I live in another jurisdiction. I laugh at GDPR. The EU can keep its bureaucracy to itself thank you very much. Making simple websites illegal and forcing me to hire a lawyer to figure out not what I'm allowed to do, but how I must do it just so is just the sort of nonsense I've come to expect from them. And yes, I agree that it is a continuation of the stupid cookie law that has made the web measurably worse in every regard. As I wrote here recently, > What an utterly useless law. We have a convenient way for people to request universally that sites not track them. So let’s make a law that makes them have to ask “the right way” every. Single. Stinking. Site. On. The. Internet. Every. Single. Time. They. Visit. Every. Single. Site. > > One might be forgiven for assuming that the law was actually intending to accomplish the reverse of the stated goal. It gives site owners tons of explicit opt-ins that nobody can complain about, even though they were coerced.
        jen20 5y ago
        Companies in the EU need cease no legitimate economic activity. What one must do is seek consent of European citizens before using their data. Those abusing personal information without consent deserve all the fines that can be thrown at them. I'd rather there were personal liability in the same manner as Title IX of Sarbanes-Oxley, but in the meantime, this is the best there is.
        jtbayly 5y ago
- brnt 5y ago
  What AWS claims is not important: the fact that US intelligence agencies are legally required to have access to data worldwide of US companies clashes with EU requirements: it is simply not allowed to expose data on natural EU persons that way.
ReleaseCandidat 5y ago
> I'm very interested to see what this changes in other european countries. As it's a direct result of an CJEU ruling (Schrems II), all other (EU) countries will have to do the same.
technion 5y ago
Analytics and fonts shouldn't be too hard. What about Captcha?
- litgab 5y ago
  The directory linked in the article actually contains a captcha service called FriendlyCaptcha: https://www.developedin.eu/item-detail?recordId=recG9DsaUnGdWmiR0 https://www.developedin.eu/item-detail?recordId=recG9DsaUnGd...
  - hijodelsol 5y ago
    From a first look it seems like the subscription requires to use that service in a EU-only fashion costs at least 200$. While this seems like a good option for large and medium size companies, I fear that this pricing leaves out all small companies that may not require 50k solved captchas a month but may require EU-based hosting nonetheless.
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  Or things like Stripe’s anti fraud js script.
- piaste 5y ago
  FriendlyCaptcha will probably get a ton of new business. It's what some EU institutions themselves use.
  - schleck8 5y ago
    I sure hope so
- jpoesen 5y ago
  https://www.hcaptcha.com/ https://www.hcaptcha.com/ is a drop-in replacement for recaptcha. It's not EU based, but at least it's not Google, and the service is privacy oriented...
  - 5y ago
baxtr 5y ago
What are the services they are switching to?
- scrdhrt 5y ago
  Matomo has gotten a ton of traction in Sweden at least.
baxtr 5y ago
I really don't understand the problem with Google analytics. Anyone who is able to explain that in easy terms? So they are collecting data about me to show me better ads. Isn't that what I want? They compare my data to a collection ("look-a-likes") of others that match my data fingerprint. What's wrong with that? The way I understand it nobody is interested in me as a person (which is a bit sad, but that's a different story...).
- ATsch 5y ago
  The problem is not that it is possible but that it is done without consent or oversight.
  - baxtr 5y ago
    Isn't that solved by cookie pop-ups? And: Why is it important to consent?
    - malermeister 5y ago
      Because the European view is that your data belongs to you and using it requires your consent.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

mrweasel 5y ago

We can't sell AWS consulting services to anyone right now, haven't been able to for over a year, almost two I think. Non of our clients trust Amazon right now. The claims from AWS is that it's fine to host EU data in AWS, but very few companies are willing to risk that.

WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
I mean, they have EU datacenters... the issue with Google Analytics is that this data can be moved through other datacenters. This was one of the ways the NSA programs worked... just tap the google lines which were unencrypted and slurp the data as it moved from datacenter to datacenter.
- BjoernKW 5y ago
  > I mean, they have EU datacenters That doesn't matter anymore. According to the relatively recent ECJ ruling mentioned in the article you're not allowed to transfer any PII to companies that are in any way affiliated with a US-based entity (e.g., by virtue of having a US-based parent company), which clearly is the case for Amazon and AWS. It doesn't stop there. According to some privacy experts, even a third party just having a US-based supplier might be construed as a customer of that third party being in violation of GDPR, at which point we'd basically have to cease all economic activity.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    Go GDPR for the win! I like the goal of privacy, but I won't be sad to see the ridiculous GDPR law implode.
    - mrweasel 5y ago
      That’s a weird attitude, at its core the GDPR is simply about keeping track of data, and ensuring that it’s not used for anything the users didn’t consent to. I’m having a hard time seeing how the rules could be any different. Remember that the GDPR is also result of companies looking at the cookie law and deciding “fuck it, let’s find a loop hole and not change anything”.
      - jtbayly 5y ago
        Oh, I don't know, maybe writing it so that it doesn't mean companies in the EU "basically have to cease all economic activity"? Or writing it so that it doesn't claim to tell me what I have to do with my website when I live in another jurisdiction. I laugh at GDPR. The EU can keep its bureaucracy to itself thank you very much. Making simple websites illegal and forcing me to hire a lawyer to figure out not what I'm allowed to do, but how I must do it just so is just the sort of nonsense I've come to expect from them. And yes, I agree that it is a continuation of the stupid cookie law that has made the web measurably worse in every regard. As I wrote here recently, > What an utterly useless law. We have a convenient way for people to request universally that sites not track them. So let’s make a law that makes them have to ask “the right way” every. Single. Stinking. Site. On. The. Internet. Every. Single. Time. They. Visit. Every. Single. Site. > > One might be forgiven for assuming that the law was actually intending to accomplish the reverse of the stated goal. It gives site owners tons of explicit opt-ins that nobody can complain about, even though they were coerced.
        jen20 5y ago
        Companies in the EU need cease no legitimate economic activity. What one must do is seek consent of European citizens before using their data. Those abusing personal information without consent deserve all the fines that can be thrown at them. I'd rather there were personal liability in the same manner as Title IX of Sarbanes-Oxley, but in the meantime, this is the best there is.
        jtbayly 5y ago
brnt 5y ago
What AWS claims is not important: the fact that US intelligence agencies are legally required to have access to data worldwide of US companies clashes with EU requirements: it is simply not allowed to expose data on natural EU persons that way.

ReleaseCandidat 5y ago

> I'm very interested to see what this changes in other european countries. As it's a direct result of an CJEU ruling (Schrems II), all other (EU) countries will have to do the same.

technion 5y ago

Analytics and fonts shouldn't be too hard. What about Captcha?

litgab 5y ago
The directory linked in the article actually contains a captcha service called FriendlyCaptcha: https://www.developedin.eu/item-detail?recordId=recG9DsaUnGdWmiR0 https://www.developedin.eu/item-detail?recordId=recG9DsaUnGd...
- hijodelsol 5y ago
  From a first look it seems like the subscription requires to use that service in a EU-only fashion costs at least 200$. While this seems like a good option for large and medium size companies, I fear that this pricing leaves out all small companies that may not require 50k solved captchas a month but may require EU-based hosting nonetheless.
iamacyborg 5y ago
Or things like Stripe’s anti fraud js script.
piaste 5y ago
FriendlyCaptcha will probably get a ton of new business. It's what some EU institutions themselves use.
- schleck8 5y ago
  I sure hope so
jpoesen 5y ago
https://www.hcaptcha.com/ https://www.hcaptcha.com/ is a drop-in replacement for recaptcha. It's not EU based, but at least it's not Google, and the service is privacy oriented...
- 5y ago

baxtr 5y ago

What are the services they are switching to?

scrdhrt 5y ago
Matomo has gotten a ton of traction in Sweden at least.

baxtr 5y ago

I really don't understand the problem with Google analytics. Anyone who is able to explain that in easy terms? So they are collecting data about me to show me better ads. Isn't that what I want? They compare my data to a collection ("look-a-likes") of others that match my data fingerprint. What's wrong with that? The way I understand it nobody is interested in me as a person (which is a bit sad, but that's a different story...).

ATsch 5y ago
The problem is not that it is possible but that it is done without consent or oversight.
- baxtr 5y ago
  Isn't that solved by cookie pop-ups? And: Why is it important to consent?
  - malermeister 5y ago
    Because the European view is that your data belongs to you and using it requires your consent.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]