5 ms·

Great news - I am biased because I moved to Europe from Northern California and might be looking for post-hoc justification for giving up millions of USD over t

Great news - I am biased because I moved to Europe from Northern California and might be looking for post-hoc justification for giving up millions of USD over the course of my career but I really think that Europe has a lot to offer. With public healthcare, good social services, reduced transit cost, etc. a bootstrapper can have a MUCH longer runway here - almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobseeker's allowance (our house is paid off which helps). You can hire engineers for a third the cost of the US, too.

jb1991 5y ago
> Jobseeker's allowance What do you mean by this term?
- tokai 5y ago
  Unemployment benefits that hinges on you proving that you are actively seeking employment.
  - mattbee 5y ago
    (in the UK)
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      In other countries as well.
      - mattbee 5y ago
        I meant the term "Jobseeker's Allowance" is a relatively new name for unemployment benefits in the UK, not that the UK is the only place that pays them. Somebody else asked the OP where in Europe they had moved to, which is why I chipped in.
krtwllndr 5y ago
with a lot of people in tech eyeing to move the opposite direction what made you come to Europe?
- CalRobert 5y ago
  I was sick of my boss expecting me to read emails on the weekend, I already spent all my vacation time in Europe anyway (mostly DE/AT), and I couldn't stand the short vacations. My wife only got 1 week off a year. At the time, it was much more affordable too - 800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city and live car free. Sadly costs have risen dramatically. It was meant to be a 6-12 month stay on a working holiday visa but we decided to stick around, and I got sponsored.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city Yeah, those days are mostly gone. The real estate market is crazy now in most of the western/northern EU. The market dipped slightly during the first lockdowns of 2020 but bounced right back up quickly and came back with a vengeance.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I moved to Europe from Northern California Europe is not a single country but a collection of vastly different countries with different opportunities and issues. May I ask which country that is? >almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobseeker's allowance That's not universally true. In some EU countries jobseeker's allowance, as the name suggests, is paid to you as long as you prove you're looking for employment, not to boot-strap your side hustle as you please, unfortunately. And to get unemployment you first need to have at least 2 years of employment, at least in Austria. You can't just show up and start cashing unemployment checks. >our house is paid off which helps I bet that helps. Ballooning housing costs is a major issue in Europe's biggest metro areas and most young people don't have this luxury and end up spending a significant portion of their take home pay on it, so I feel you're situation is far more priviledged than the average European.
- ftth_finland 5y ago
  In Finland you can get an amount equal to basic unemployment benefits to start a business for a year. You can get last resort social benefits basically forever if you aren’t actively working much or don’t run a business.
  - CalRobert 5y ago
    That's really interesting. I'm naturalised now and we've considered moving to Finland because Ireland's schools seem inferior. among other reasons. One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? We've been lucky to build a great friend network here. Incidentally I bought a Muurikka from a Finnish friend last summer and it's the most amazing thing I've ever cooked with. I don't think I'll ever go back to a bbq :-)
    - piva00 5y ago
      > One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? That's true in all of the Nordics but I believe specially more in Finland. I'm a naturalised Swede and had to put a lot of effort into making friends the first couple of years here. Yes, making friends is much harder than in my original culture (Brazil) but there is also the counter-side to it on the quality of friendships you make that I believe it's worth to take into account. Making friends here is really about bonding and creating deep connections with someone else, not just a cursory acquaintance to go out to bars and do things together. In that sense I do understand completely why people are generally more reserved into expanding their social circles, it takes a lot of effort and a genuine interest in each other to foster a friendship and locals/natives already come with their own social groups from just living here their whole lives. Cracking into these social circles is definitely hard, you will need to find hobbies and activities where you can meet people around a shared interest and usually expand from there, you won't be making friends by simply going to bars, for example. And that's also the isolating part of Nordic cultures, you keep social circles smaller because they are more meaningful but getting started into a meaningful relationship takes time and will make you feel lonely. People are also wary of mixing/mingling social groups as they'll feel responsible for the experience the groups have (at least here in Sweden), it's uncommon for someone to invite their different social circles into the same gathering, except maybe for birthdays. Overall I've adapted quite well and I'm very happy with the friends I made, it is more demanding but extremely rewarding.
Proven 5y ago
[dead]
jacquesm 5y ago
Job seekers allowance is not meant to support immigrants forever without actually seeking a job. That's abusing the system, especially if you're from a wealthy country and never paid into the system in the first place.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  Fortunately my example was hypothetical, and I don't expect to avail of this option myself. Plenty of my Irish friends were pretty cool with being on JSA and not trying _too_ hard to find a job. Growing up abroad and moving to a country in your thirties means you draw rather little benefit but pay in to the system massively. Because of Ireland's _extremely_ progressive/redistributive tax system, I have already paid more in to the system than a median earner here will in their entire career. Which is fine, that's the deal I signed up for, but I hardly think if I found myself on JSA for a while and noodled on a side project it makes me a leech.

jb1991 5y ago

> Jobseeker's allowance What do you mean by this term?

tokai 5y ago
Unemployment benefits that hinges on you proving that you are actively seeking employment.
- mattbee 5y ago
  (in the UK)
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    In other countries as well.
    - mattbee 5y ago
      I meant the term "Jobseeker's Allowance" is a relatively new name for unemployment benefits in the UK, not that the UK is the only place that pays them. Somebody else asked the OP where in Europe they had moved to, which is why I chipped in.

krtwllndr 5y ago

with a lot of people in tech eyeing to move the opposite direction what made you come to Europe?

CalRobert 5y ago
I was sick of my boss expecting me to read emails on the weekend, I already spent all my vacation time in Europe anyway (mostly DE/AT), and I couldn't stand the short vacations. My wife only got 1 week off a year. At the time, it was much more affordable too - 800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city and live car free. Sadly costs have risen dramatically. It was meant to be a 6-12 month stay on a working holiday visa but we decided to stick around, and I got sponsored.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city Yeah, those days are mostly gone. The real estate market is crazy now in most of the western/northern EU. The market dipped slightly during the first lockdowns of 2020 but bounced right back up quickly and came back with a vengeance.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>I moved to Europe from Northern California Europe is not a single country but a collection of vastly different countries with different opportunities and issues. May I ask which country that is? >almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobseeker's allowance That's not universally true. In some EU countries jobseeker's allowance, as the name suggests, is paid to you as long as you prove you're looking for employment, not to boot-strap your side hustle as you please, unfortunately. And to get unemployment you first need to have at least 2 years of employment, at least in Austria. You can't just show up and start cashing unemployment checks. >our house is paid off which helps I bet that helps. Ballooning housing costs is a major issue in Europe's biggest metro areas and most young people don't have this luxury and end up spending a significant portion of their take home pay on it, so I feel you're situation is far more priviledged than the average European.

ftth_finland 5y ago
In Finland you can get an amount equal to basic unemployment benefits to start a business for a year. You can get last resort social benefits basically forever if you aren’t actively working much or don’t run a business.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  That's really interesting. I'm naturalised now and we've considered moving to Finland because Ireland's schools seem inferior. among other reasons. One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? We've been lucky to build a great friend network here. Incidentally I bought a Muurikka from a Finnish friend last summer and it's the most amazing thing I've ever cooked with. I don't think I'll ever go back to a bbq :-)
  - piva00 5y ago
    > One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? That's true in all of the Nordics but I believe specially more in Finland. I'm a naturalised Swede and had to put a lot of effort into making friends the first couple of years here. Yes, making friends is much harder than in my original culture (Brazil) but there is also the counter-side to it on the quality of friendships you make that I believe it's worth to take into account. Making friends here is really about bonding and creating deep connections with someone else, not just a cursory acquaintance to go out to bars and do things together. In that sense I do understand completely why people are generally more reserved into expanding their social circles, it takes a lot of effort and a genuine interest in each other to foster a friendship and locals/natives already come with their own social groups from just living here their whole lives. Cracking into these social circles is definitely hard, you will need to find hobbies and activities where you can meet people around a shared interest and usually expand from there, you won't be making friends by simply going to bars, for example. And that's also the isolating part of Nordic cultures, you keep social circles smaller because they are more meaningful but getting started into a meaningful relationship takes time and will make you feel lonely. People are also wary of mixing/mingling social groups as they'll feel responsible for the experience the groups have (at least here in Sweden), it's uncommon for someone to invite their different social circles into the same gathering, except maybe for birthdays. Overall I've adapted quite well and I'm very happy with the friends I made, it is more demanding but extremely rewarding.

Proven 5y ago

[dead]

jacquesm 5y ago

Job seekers allowance is not meant to support immigrants forever without actually seeking a job. That's abusing the system, especially if you're from a wealthy country and never paid into the system in the first place.

CalRobert 5y ago
Fortunately my example was hypothetical, and I don't expect to avail of this option myself. Plenty of my Irish friends were pretty cool with being on JSA and not trying _too_ hard to find a job. Growing up abroad and moving to a country in your thirties means you draw rather little benefit but pay in to the system massively. Because of Ireland's _extremely_ progressive/redistributive tax system, I have already paid more in to the system than a median earner here will in their entire career. Which is fine, that's the deal I signed up for, but I hardly think if I found myself on JSA for a while and noodled on a side project it makes me a leech.