3 ms·

Silicon Valley should look itself in the mirror if it wants to throw stones at Wall Street. Tim O'Reilly is posting to the site of a corporation that funnels m

by pkaler 15y ago

Silicon Valley should look itself in the mirror if it wants to throw stones at Wall Street. Tim O'Reilly is posting to the site of a corporation that funnels money to Bermuda so that it only has to pay a 2.4% tax rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_Arrangement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_Arrangement http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-sho... And O'Reilly probably has Eric Schmidt and Larry Page's phone numbers.

dlss 15y ago
Please bookmark this thread and reread the post (and your response) after you've calmed down. There is a big difference between what Tim was talking about ("constructed a set of financial products with intent to defraud") and what you're talking about ("[using the website of / knowing the founders of] a corporation that funnels money to Bermuda [after getting an okay to do so from the IRS] so that it only has to pay a 2.4% tax rate [on overseas income]").
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
stumm 15y ago
O'Reilly is critical of tech companies that try to avoid paying taxes. In fact he posted a lengthy article about why amazon should stop trying to avoid paying taxes in California: https://plus.google.com/107033731246200681024/posts/QypNDmvJJq7 https://plus.google.com/107033731246200681024/posts/QypNDmvJ...
CamperBob 15y ago
You have a problem with the laws, write your Congressmen. Otherwise you're just player-hating.
- wnoise 15y ago
  Lobbying gets the laws passed for those that enjoy them. The players help create the game, so it is perfectly appropriate to hate them.
  - CamperBob 15y ago
    A valid point, if Google or its founders had lobbied for the law that permits those particular tax havens.
- _delirium 15y ago
  There's nothing wrong with campaigning against companies who do things you find unethical, even if they aren't criminal. In this case perhaps the laws should be changed, but in general it's not even desirable for every unethical act to be illegal, yet that doesn't mean we should completely ignore them either. You could, for example, do a classic free-market thing: choose to only do business with companies who act in a way you consider appropriate, and avoid those who don't, perhaps actively campaigning against the ones you find particularly egregious. The "it's just a game, these are the rules" mentality is actually deeply anti-free-market in the classic sense of intelligent individuals making free choices--- it's the view shady corporate types take, who try to stack the rules and then also promote the view that everyone has to just listen to what the government says the rules are, and not make individual decisions.
rmc 15y ago
For the record the low Irish corporate tax rate of 12½% has created hundreds of thousands of highly paid jobs in Ireland. "Google Ireland" and "Amazon Ireland" aren't brass plaque companies with no employees, they employ thousands of people. Here's Google Ireland when their street view car passed http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.339416,-6.236528&spn=0.002601,0.004823&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.339368,-6.236635&panoid=3u7FovYppLBeeEm-6jf1kg&cbp=12,8.93,,0,-0.5 http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.339416,-6.236528&spn=0.002... In Ireland the low corporate tax rate is viewed as vital to creating jobs here.
- rmc 15y ago
  Some more large american companies with large offices in Ireland: Microsoft: http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.276525,-6.207876&spn=0.004856,0.009044&t=h&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.276355,-6.208034&panoid=CFlk3P3Wx8oTOgra2I6GHw&cbp=12,305.6,,0,-3.61 http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.276525,-6.207876&spn=0.004... Intel: http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=leixlip+intel&hl=en&ll=53.373687,-6.521577&spn=0.002423,0.004522&safe=off&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&fb=1&gl=ie&cid=0,0,12199024533800083128&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.373602,-6.521624&panoid=gPeiTYAkvE5QOSxqHbLp2A&cbp=12,355.71,,1,-5.22 http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=leixlip+intel&hl=en&ll=... IBM: http://maps.google.ie/maps?ll=53.332712,-6.241581&spn=0.002409,0.004522&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.332695,-6.241431&panoid=w_Lisi33BbXoLvOVaziK5g&cbp=12,53,,0,-0.64 http://maps.google.ie/maps?ll=53.332712,-6.241581&spn=0.... Oracle (and/or Sun): http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.358473,-6.227601&spn=0.001092,0.004522&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.358472,-6.227602&panoid=doEKSK2Wgh88raDeJbVb5g&cbp=11,211.78,,0,-9.55 http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.358473,-6.227601&...

by pkaler 15y ago

dlss 15y ago

Please bookmark this thread and reread the post (and your response) after you've calmed down. There is a big difference between what Tim was talking about ("constructed a set of financial products with intent to defraud") and what you're talking about ("[using the website of / knowing the founders of] a corporation that funnels money to Bermuda [after getting an okay to do so from the IRS] so that it only has to pay a 2.4% tax rate [on overseas income]").

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

stumm 15y ago

O'Reilly is critical of tech companies that try to avoid paying taxes. In fact he posted a lengthy article about why amazon should stop trying to avoid paying taxes in California: https://plus.google.com/107033731246200681024/posts/QypNDmvJJq7 https://plus.google.com/107033731246200681024/posts/QypNDmvJ...

CamperBob 15y ago

You have a problem with the laws, write your Congressmen. Otherwise you're just player-hating.

wnoise 15y ago
Lobbying gets the laws passed for those that enjoy them. The players help create the game, so it is perfectly appropriate to hate them.
- CamperBob 15y ago
  A valid point, if Google or its founders had lobbied for the law that permits those particular tax havens.
_delirium 15y ago
There's nothing wrong with campaigning against companies who do things you find unethical, even if they aren't criminal. In this case perhaps the laws should be changed, but in general it's not even desirable for every unethical act to be illegal, yet that doesn't mean we should completely ignore them either. You could, for example, do a classic free-market thing: choose to only do business with companies who act in a way you consider appropriate, and avoid those who don't, perhaps actively campaigning against the ones you find particularly egregious. The "it's just a game, these are the rules" mentality is actually deeply anti-free-market in the classic sense of intelligent individuals making free choices--- it's the view shady corporate types take, who try to stack the rules and then also promote the view that everyone has to just listen to what the government says the rules are, and not make individual decisions.

rmc 15y ago

For the record the low Irish corporate tax rate of 12½% has created hundreds of thousands of highly paid jobs in Ireland. "Google Ireland" and "Amazon Ireland" aren't brass plaque companies with no employees, they employ thousands of people. Here's Google Ireland when their street view car passed http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.339416,-6.236528&spn=0.002601,0.004823&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.339368,-6.236635&panoid=3u7FovYppLBeeEm-6jf1kg&cbp=12,8.93,,0,-0.5 http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.339416,-6.236528&spn=0.002... In Ireland the low corporate tax rate is viewed as vital to creating jobs here.

rmc 15y ago
Some more large american companies with large offices in Ireland: Microsoft: http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.276525,-6.207876&spn=0.004856,0.009044&t=h&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.276355,-6.208034&panoid=CFlk3P3Wx8oTOgra2I6GHw&cbp=12,305.6,,0,-3.61 http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.276525,-6.207876&spn=0.004... Intel: http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=leixlip+intel&hl=en&ll=53.373687,-6.521577&spn=0.002423,0.004522&safe=off&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&fb=1&gl=ie&cid=0,0,12199024533800083128&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.373602,-6.521624&panoid=gPeiTYAkvE5QOSxqHbLp2A&cbp=12,355.71,,1,-5.22 http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=leixlip+intel&hl=en&ll=... IBM: http://maps.google.ie/maps?ll=53.332712,-6.241581&spn=0.002409,0.004522&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.332695,-6.241431&panoid=w_Lisi33BbXoLvOVaziK5g&cbp=12,53,,0,-0.64 http://maps.google.ie/maps?ll=53.332712,-6.241581&spn=0.... Oracle (and/or Sun): http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.358473,-6.227601&spn=0.001092,0.004522&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.358472,-6.227602&panoid=doEKSK2Wgh88raDeJbVb5g&cbp=11,211.78,,0,-9.55 http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.358473,-6.227601&...