5 ms·

now if only this was packaged as part of a conversion kit for ICEs. 3.5k$ would be a magic price. And a shop could similarly charge to retro it at that price. S

now if only this was packaged as part of a conversion kit for ICEs. 3.5k$ would be a magic price. And a shop could similarly charge to retro it at that price. So hopefully 7k$ total. Mind you the work shops will bank even more with all the "scrap metal (engine block, catalytic converters etc)" so maybe we'd see free swap deals.

userbinator 5y ago
A hybrid conversion would be ideal, if this motor could also act as a generator. It seems like it's small enough to fit on the tailshaft of a regular transmission; or perhaps even several of them. I think that amount of power, although for only 20s, would make for a fun Tesla-beating hybrid sleeper.
snypher 5y ago
It's way too overpowered for most ICE conversion; so an even smaller and lighter one would be fine. Now where's the batteries... Edit:"After 20 seconds, the figures drop to 134 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque.". That's more like it.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Your main hurdle is the driveline surviving the initial torque shock, so even with that 20sec power drop you still have the initial torque from a full battery as a risk. Not at all unsolvable, you just want to consider it before you break your axles!
  - tadfisher 5y ago
    At this size, you don't need axles, just mount them straight to the hubs and pay a little penalty in unsprung weight. Or use stubby half-shafts.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    This is already a solved problem, as the accelerator peddle in an electric vehicle isn't a simple on / off switch, it's connected to a computer that talks to an electronic speed controller, thereby providing drive-train safe power application. The same sorts of governing functions are computer managed in an ICE powered vehicle too.
    - ehnto 5y ago
      Of course, this is in response to an engine swap, just talking out that these are all decisions to be made and thought about. People regularly drop in bigger ICE motors and blow their drivelines up. There is absolutely the option of plonking in a big torquey electric motor and sending all you've got through it, without upgrading axles or using the right settings/setup in your motor controller.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    This isn't a theoretical problem, even some ICEs with a lot of torque have warnings against flooring them from standstill to avoid axle/drivetrain damage.
    - ehnto 5y ago
      Oh I didn't mean solveable in the theoretical sense, I meant it is very much a practically solveable problem. Buy bigger axles, use a nuanced motor controller etc. It's a problem you have to solve for ICE swaps/tunes too. Just discussing that it's something you will likely want to consider if you're swapping from something low torque.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I wonder how a 100hp variant would look.
  - ddalex 5y ago
    > After 20 seconds, the figures drop to 134 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque Almost exactly the same :)
elihu 5y ago
The scrap metal isn't really worth all that much. Maybe the cat is worth something. I do agree though that it'd be great to be able to buy new high-performance conversion motors for a reasonable price. (I'm working on an RX-8 conversion with a Netgain Hyper9. It's a decent motor, but 120 horsepower isn't a lot compared to the ~230 hp engine it originally had, or the motors that come in mid-range modern EVs.) On the other hand, a smaller, more powerful motor would probably need a lot of cooling. The Hyper9 is air cooled, and is supposedly about 96% efficient when it's in its optimal range. Sometimes it's nice to have things be simple. (The motor controller generally does need water cooling. It's not technically mandatory, but highly recommended.)
- kingcharles 5y ago
  How many death threats have you received for the "heresy" of removing the rotary engine from the RX-8?
  - robin_reala 5y ago
    They typically remove themselves.
    - elihu 5y ago
      I wish that were literally true, it would have been a lot easier. Those engines are heavy (especially with the exhaust manifold/alternator/flywheel/etc.. hanging off it).
  - elihu 5y ago
    None. I bought the car with a bad engine in the first place, so it's not like I threw away a perfectly good engine. (I even took the old engine to a guy that rebuilds rotaries; he took it apart and said there weren't any parts that were worth trying to reuse.) This is true of a lot of conversions: they aren't "destroying" a perfectly good ICE engine, they're salvaging a car that would otherwise be sent to the wrecker because it doesn't work anymore. I think the RX-8 is a great platform for conversion because it's a nice, reasonably modern car and they can be had for almost nothing if the engine needs rebuilding, or is too damaged to be rebuilt.
djrogers 5y ago
$3.5k is waaaaaaay too low to expect for an e-conversion any time soon. Heck, that’s too low for a decent ICE crate motor.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Too low? Meaning there's no room for people to make money as what installers? How does the price being low make it less likely to become a thing?
  - t-3 5y ago
    Meaning the actual price will be much higher than that estimate. Electric vehicles aren't just gasoline vehicles with a motor swap.
    - LASR 5y ago
      True. Batteries, inverters etc are expensive. Comparing a gas tank to EV batteries, the cost swings the other way unfortunately.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Even with an e-conversion you will often have to address the ECU in some manner. Even if you have a full standalone EV setup you will likely still need to integrate some portion of the body harness and fool the rest of the car. Bolting in the crate EV parts will be pretty trivial, the wiring etc is going to take time. A smart company will come around one day with a targeted selection of cars for a "plug and play" wiring harnesses and control units.
- sgt 5y ago
  For that money rather spend it on a V8 crate motor like a used LS or new Ford 5.8L V8 (easy 300 hp).
coryrc 5y ago
The problem is not the engine, it's finding a place to securely mount the batteries that won't interfere with the crash safety systems. Hint: that would cost tens or hundreds of millions per car model if it's even possible. Conversions aren't going to be mass market.
LASR 5y ago
But what about the cost of the batteries?
- desktopninja 5y ago
  perhaps batteries as we know them today may be different in a couple of years. hydrogen fuel cell batteries hold promise in this regard and possibly others like salt based batteries.
ZoomerCretin 5y ago
JerryRigEverything is converting an older US military Humvee to electric: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkdW3TTdn0Q_AKL https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkd... tl;dw: It's much more involved than simply swapping the motor. You need to create a custom mounting bracket for the electric motor, you need batteries (used long-range 75 KwH Tesla batteries go for about $10k), you need a charging system, an electronic management system, and you need to find a way to power peripherals like A/C which are typically powered via a serpentine belt from an ICE.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  In time there will be a 3rd party market for conversion kits from EV parts to old cars just like there is a huge market for frames and engines etc for classic cars today.
jokowueu 5y ago
Ford is selling ev crate motor if your interested
- worthless-trash 5y ago
  Got a link/name for this ?
  - tomcam 5y ago
    $5,000! https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE
  - Someone 5y ago
    Seems they initially sold a few for $3900, but now have them priced at $4095 https://electrek.co/2021/11/03/ford-is-selling-mach-e-crate-motors-to-promote-custom-ev-conversions-like-this-f-100-concept/ https://electrek.co/2021/11/03/ford-is-selling-mach-e-crate-... https://www.thedrive.com/news/43030/fords-already-out-of-3900-electric-crate-motors https://www.thedrive.com/news/43030/fords-already-out-of-390... https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Why on earth would a company on the cutting edge of EV technology sell their motor for $3.5k? > Mind you the work shops will bank even more with all the "scrap metal (engine block, catalytic converters etc)" so maybe we'd see free swap deals. What? You severely over-estimate the value of that unprocessed "scrap metal." Also, the EV motor is probably one of the least expensive parts of the system. It's the battery and inverter that are expensive.

userbinator 5y ago

A hybrid conversion would be ideal, if this motor could also act as a generator. It seems like it's small enough to fit on the tailshaft of a regular transmission; or perhaps even several of them. I think that amount of power, although for only 20s, would make for a fun Tesla-beating hybrid sleeper.

snypher 5y ago

It's way too overpowered for most ICE conversion; so an even smaller and lighter one would be fine. Now where's the batteries... Edit:"After 20 seconds, the figures drop to 134 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque.". That's more like it.

ehnto 5y ago
Your main hurdle is the driveline surviving the initial torque shock, so even with that 20sec power drop you still have the initial torque from a full battery as a risk. Not at all unsolvable, you just want to consider it before you break your axles!
- tadfisher 5y ago
  At this size, you don't need axles, just mount them straight to the hubs and pay a little penalty in unsprung weight. Or use stubby half-shafts.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  This is already a solved problem, as the accelerator peddle in an electric vehicle isn't a simple on / off switch, it's connected to a computer that talks to an electronic speed controller, thereby providing drive-train safe power application. The same sorts of governing functions are computer managed in an ICE powered vehicle too.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Of course, this is in response to an engine swap, just talking out that these are all decisions to be made and thought about. People regularly drop in bigger ICE motors and blow their drivelines up. There is absolutely the option of plonking in a big torquey electric motor and sending all you've got through it, without upgrading axles or using the right settings/setup in your motor controller.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  This isn't a theoretical problem, even some ICEs with a lot of torque have warnings against flooring them from standstill to avoid axle/drivetrain damage.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Oh I didn't mean solveable in the theoretical sense, I meant it is very much a practically solveable problem. Buy bigger axles, use a nuanced motor controller etc. It's a problem you have to solve for ICE swaps/tunes too. Just discussing that it's something you will likely want to consider if you're swapping from something low torque.
agumonkey 5y ago
I wonder how a 100hp variant would look.
- ddalex 5y ago
  > After 20 seconds, the figures drop to 134 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque Almost exactly the same :)

elihu 5y ago

The scrap metal isn't really worth all that much. Maybe the cat is worth something. I do agree though that it'd be great to be able to buy new high-performance conversion motors for a reasonable price. (I'm working on an RX-8 conversion with a Netgain Hyper9. It's a decent motor, but 120 horsepower isn't a lot compared to the ~230 hp engine it originally had, or the motors that come in mid-range modern EVs.) On the other hand, a smaller, more powerful motor would probably need a lot of cooling. The Hyper9 is air cooled, and is supposedly about 96% efficient when it's in its optimal range. Sometimes it's nice to have things be simple. (The motor controller generally does need water cooling. It's not technically mandatory, but highly recommended.)

kingcharles 5y ago
How many death threats have you received for the "heresy" of removing the rotary engine from the RX-8?
- robin_reala 5y ago
  They typically remove themselves.
  - elihu 5y ago
    I wish that were literally true, it would have been a lot easier. Those engines are heavy (especially with the exhaust manifold/alternator/flywheel/etc.. hanging off it).
- elihu 5y ago
  None. I bought the car with a bad engine in the first place, so it's not like I threw away a perfectly good engine. (I even took the old engine to a guy that rebuilds rotaries; he took it apart and said there weren't any parts that were worth trying to reuse.) This is true of a lot of conversions: they aren't "destroying" a perfectly good ICE engine, they're salvaging a car that would otherwise be sent to the wrecker because it doesn't work anymore. I think the RX-8 is a great platform for conversion because it's a nice, reasonably modern car and they can be had for almost nothing if the engine needs rebuilding, or is too damaged to be rebuilt.

djrogers 5y ago

$3.5k is waaaaaaay too low to expect for an e-conversion any time soon. Heck, that’s too low for a decent ICE crate motor.

dylan604 5y ago
Too low? Meaning there's no room for people to make money as what installers? How does the price being low make it less likely to become a thing?
- t-3 5y ago
  Meaning the actual price will be much higher than that estimate. Electric vehicles aren't just gasoline vehicles with a motor swap.
  - LASR 5y ago
    True. Batteries, inverters etc are expensive. Comparing a gas tank to EV batteries, the cost swings the other way unfortunately.
ehnto 5y ago
Even with an e-conversion you will often have to address the ECU in some manner. Even if you have a full standalone EV setup you will likely still need to integrate some portion of the body harness and fool the rest of the car. Bolting in the crate EV parts will be pretty trivial, the wiring etc is going to take time. A smart company will come around one day with a targeted selection of cars for a "plug and play" wiring harnesses and control units.
sgt 5y ago
For that money rather spend it on a V8 crate motor like a used LS or new Ford 5.8L V8 (easy 300 hp).

coryrc 5y ago

The problem is not the engine, it's finding a place to securely mount the batteries that won't interfere with the crash safety systems. Hint: that would cost tens or hundreds of millions per car model if it's even possible. Conversions aren't going to be mass market.

LASR 5y ago

But what about the cost of the batteries?

desktopninja 5y ago
perhaps batteries as we know them today may be different in a couple of years. hydrogen fuel cell batteries hold promise in this regard and possibly others like salt based batteries.

ZoomerCretin 5y ago

JerryRigEverything is converting an older US military Humvee to electric: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkdW3TTdn0Q_AKL https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkd... tl;dw: It's much more involved than simply swapping the motor. You need to create a custom mounting bracket for the electric motor, you need batteries (used long-range 75 KwH Tesla batteries go for about $10k), you need a charging system, an electronic management system, and you need to find a way to power peripherals like A/C which are typically powered via a serpentine belt from an ICE.

theshrike79 5y ago
In time there will be a 3rd party market for conversion kits from EV parts to old cars just like there is a huge market for frames and engines etc for classic cars today.

jokowueu 5y ago

Ford is selling ev crate motor if your interested

worthless-trash 5y ago
Got a link/name for this ?
- tomcam 5y ago
  $5,000! https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE
- Someone 5y ago
  Seems they initially sold a few for $3900, but now have them priced at $4095 https://electrek.co/2021/11/03/ford-is-selling-mach-e-crate-motors-to-promote-custom-ev-conversions-like-this-f-100-concept/ https://electrek.co/2021/11/03/ford-is-selling-mach-e-crate-... https://www.thedrive.com/news/43030/fords-already-out-of-3900-electric-crate-motors https://www.thedrive.com/news/43030/fords-already-out-of-390... https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Why on earth would a company on the cutting edge of EV technology sell their motor for $3.5k? > Mind you the work shops will bank even more with all the "scrap metal (engine block, catalytic converters etc)" so maybe we'd see free swap deals. What? You severely over-estimate the value of that unprocessed "scrap metal." Also, the EV motor is probably one of the least expensive parts of the system. It's the battery and inverter that are expensive.