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> It's interesting to see this touch a nerve so intensely, I think it's really exposing the lies people tell themselves to cope with a reality that isn't really

by movedx 5y ago

> It's interesting to see this touch a nerve so intensely, I think it's really exposing the lies people tell themselves to cope with a reality that isn't really internally consistent and that's why there's such a strong reaction. I'm not telling my self any lies. I deeply believe that my computer is my private property and I get full control over what executes on it. If you think otherwise you're delusional. I want to control what runs on my computer because by not doing so I run the risk of allowing something malicious to execute and thus I suffer long term, and perhaps others directly connected to me also suffer. I want to prevent that and I do so by stopping JavaScript from running automatically in my browser. I use uBlock for the same reason: I want to block elements from running on a website that aren't directly associated with the content I asked for. If after visiting the website it comes to light that the webmasters are actually only showing genuinely good adverts that are ethically and morally rendered (i.e. they're not using abusive practices), then I can choose to either whitelist that website or stop accessing it. I get to choose who does what with my computer.

thot_experiment 5y ago
Everything you said is true but none of is relevant to whether or not adblocking is piracy.
- movedx 5y ago
  Ad networks run code on my system in order to render an advert. I block this as I did not consent to this, as the practices are abusive and go beyond the rendering of the advert (privacy concerns, big brother, censorship, etc.) Not wanting to have something imposed upon me without my permission, and not having the ability to first accept or reject a website's TOS before entering, means I have to assume the worst case (malware, malicious intent, bad practices, etc.) and therefore protect my self ahead of time. This is not piracy because I didn't know there were going to be adverts in the first place. And what adverts would have rendered were stopped by an adblocker or script blocker because I have to assume the worst will happen. I'm saying it's not piracy because it's (digital) self defense. It's assuming the worst going into a website, putting up defenses to protect against that worst case scenario, and the side effect of that is the website's revenue source is blocked. Sorry, not sorry. Find a better way of telling me about your products and services that doesn't mean I'm opening my self up to a good old fashioned digital screwing over.
  - esyir 5y ago
    That's a lot of text to rationalise it to yourself. It's at least in the spirit of piracy, and that's OK.
    - movedx 5y ago
      Now you're just being childish :-)
      - esyir 5y ago
        In the end, it breaks down like this. AD (Youtube) Youtube says watch AD, then I'll give you the video. Pirate/Contested term: I will technologically circumvent the process and take the video anyway. Traditional piracy: Store says give money, then I'll give you the video Pirate: I will technologically circumvent the process and take the video anyway. The only difference here is that the "payment" is cash in one case, and an ad view in the other. Both cases deal with the same output, both put a barrier around the content, and both cases get that barrier circumvented via technological means that allow access to non-scarce content. The most charitable I can be here, is that "it's really really close, but because it's not explicit monetary payment, it's not piracy". But that's just playing word games. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, or some close relative of said waterfowl. There's no shame in admitting that. I happily adblock too, but I'm not going to pretend I'm doing some virtuous deed by rising against the man to block an ad. I'm blocking them cause I don't like the inconveniences and issues with ads, and to hell with the creators ad revenue. So yes, I do think that those who skirt around that definition and rage at that are largely just trying to rationalize it with themselves.
nhinck 5y ago
> ...or stop accessing it So you do acknowledge that continuing to access a website while blocking its ads is some kind of "moral wrong", no matter how minor?
- movedx 5y ago
  Only AFTER one has determined the webmasters aren't using abusive ad networks or practices, or both, to get those adverts to you. What you're trying to ask is: do you white list once a website has shown itself to be decent? Yes, when and where I remember. Sometimes it slips my mind.
  - nhinck 5y ago
    Sometimes I forget to scan things at the self-service checkout too.

by movedx 5y ago

thot_experiment 5y ago

Everything you said is true but none of is relevant to whether or not adblocking is piracy.

movedx 5y ago
Ad networks run code on my system in order to render an advert. I block this as I did not consent to this, as the practices are abusive and go beyond the rendering of the advert (privacy concerns, big brother, censorship, etc.) Not wanting to have something imposed upon me without my permission, and not having the ability to first accept or reject a website's TOS before entering, means I have to assume the worst case (malware, malicious intent, bad practices, etc.) and therefore protect my self ahead of time. This is not piracy because I didn't know there were going to be adverts in the first place. And what adverts would have rendered were stopped by an adblocker or script blocker because I have to assume the worst will happen. I'm saying it's not piracy because it's (digital) self defense. It's assuming the worst going into a website, putting up defenses to protect against that worst case scenario, and the side effect of that is the website's revenue source is blocked. Sorry, not sorry. Find a better way of telling me about your products and services that doesn't mean I'm opening my self up to a good old fashioned digital screwing over.
- esyir 5y ago
  That's a lot of text to rationalise it to yourself. It's at least in the spirit of piracy, and that's OK.
  - movedx 5y ago
    Now you're just being childish :-)
    - esyir 5y ago
      In the end, it breaks down like this. AD (Youtube) Youtube says watch AD, then I'll give you the video. Pirate/Contested term: I will technologically circumvent the process and take the video anyway. Traditional piracy: Store says give money, then I'll give you the video Pirate: I will technologically circumvent the process and take the video anyway. The only difference here is that the "payment" is cash in one case, and an ad view in the other. Both cases deal with the same output, both put a barrier around the content, and both cases get that barrier circumvented via technological means that allow access to non-scarce content. The most charitable I can be here, is that "it's really really close, but because it's not explicit monetary payment, it's not piracy". But that's just playing word games. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, or some close relative of said waterfowl. There's no shame in admitting that. I happily adblock too, but I'm not going to pretend I'm doing some virtuous deed by rising against the man to block an ad. I'm blocking them cause I don't like the inconveniences and issues with ads, and to hell with the creators ad revenue. So yes, I do think that those who skirt around that definition and rage at that are largely just trying to rationalize it with themselves.

nhinck 5y ago

> ...or stop accessing it So you do acknowledge that continuing to access a website while blocking its ads is some kind of "moral wrong", no matter how minor?

movedx 5y ago
Only AFTER one has determined the webmasters aren't using abusive ad networks or practices, or both, to get those adverts to you. What you're trying to ask is: do you white list once a website has shown itself to be decent? Yes, when and where I remember. Sometimes it slips my mind.
- nhinck 5y ago
  Sometimes I forget to scan things at the self-service checkout too.