4 ms·

I have low faith in the current WebAssembly GC proposal. It's been such a daunting task that they've started talking about "mini-mini MVPs". The GC proposal doe

I have low faith in the current WebAssembly GC proposal. It's been such a daunting task that they've started talking about "mini-mini MVPs". The GC proposal does not do what most people think it does, the current draft is basically impossible for most languages to target, and even contributors are finding it difficult to reach consensus [0]. It might be a while before it becomes useful. [0] https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/issues/254 https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/issues/254

cogman10 5y ago
This is the most concerning thing I have about the web in general. It feels like nothing is getting done because everyone is fighting with everyone else about everything. I feel like WASM has just sort of rotted. It feels like so many advancements from threads to GC have been stuck in committee for years now. I feel the same way about WebGPU. Just doesn't feel like anything is getting done when it comes to new compute standards.
- adrianN 5y ago
  Everyone fighting with everyone else is how every standard is made. Standards evolving slowly is generally a good thing, because it gives people time to understand each standard and learn something before the next standard is designed.
- mrandish 5y ago
  > have been stuck in committee for years now. I've been noticing this for years too and I've concluded that a significant driver is the fact that certain major corporations (eg Apple, Google, MSFT) who sit on central web standards committees feel their app store and operating system businesses would be threatened if the full potential of Web Assembly gets in standards, implemented and widely deployed. Perhaps everything always bogging down in a way that delays or precludes fully unleashing these disruptive capabilities may not be entirely accidental. To be clear, I'm not asserting there's an intentional, pre-mediated conspiracy afoot. It's always a possibility, of course, but it's also possible that the various stakeholder business units inside these corporations are themselves conflicted, causing internal battles leading to confusion, delay and mixed signals on standards bodies. Sadly, that can end up having very much the same net effect as intentional sabotage.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  I came to the conclusion that 3D APIs on the browsers are for ecommerce, PS2 like graphics and stuff like shader toy, specially when they have Khronos in the mix. Check this month WebGPU session, it is always the same "we hope the community will get together", "it is past MVP 1.0", "no experience with native GPGPU debugging", "you need to put up with what we have, it will improve",.... Or just make use of a middleware targeting native APIs and move on.

cogman10 5y ago

This is the most concerning thing I have about the web in general. It feels like nothing is getting done because everyone is fighting with everyone else about everything. I feel like WASM has just sort of rotted. It feels like so many advancements from threads to GC have been stuck in committee for years now. I feel the same way about WebGPU. Just doesn't feel like anything is getting done when it comes to new compute standards.

adrianN 5y ago
Everyone fighting with everyone else is how every standard is made. Standards evolving slowly is generally a good thing, because it gives people time to understand each standard and learn something before the next standard is designed.
mrandish 5y ago
> have been stuck in committee for years now. I've been noticing this for years too and I've concluded that a significant driver is the fact that certain major corporations (eg Apple, Google, MSFT) who sit on central web standards committees feel their app store and operating system businesses would be threatened if the full potential of Web Assembly gets in standards, implemented and widely deployed. Perhaps everything always bogging down in a way that delays or precludes fully unleashing these disruptive capabilities may not be entirely accidental. To be clear, I'm not asserting there's an intentional, pre-mediated conspiracy afoot. It's always a possibility, of course, but it's also possible that the various stakeholder business units inside these corporations are themselves conflicted, causing internal battles leading to confusion, delay and mixed signals on standards bodies. Sadly, that can end up having very much the same net effect as intentional sabotage.
pjmlp 5y ago
I came to the conclusion that 3D APIs on the browsers are for ecommerce, PS2 like graphics and stuff like shader toy, specially when they have Khronos in the mix. Check this month WebGPU session, it is always the same "we hope the community will get together", "it is past MVP 1.0", "no experience with native GPGPU debugging", "you need to put up with what we have, it will improve",.... Or just make use of a middleware targeting native APIs and move on.