4 ms·

The reason is placebos are receiving meta enhancement! At first the placebo effect only had working for it the patients hope that they might be receiving the t

The reason is placebos are receiving meta enhancement! At first the placebo effect only had working for it the patients hope that they might be receiving the treatment pill and might get better. Alternatively, working against it was the concern they were getting the placebo and likelihood of getting worse. (Ie 1/2 odds at recovering) But, as studies showed that even those receiving placebos were getting better patients came to realize that even if they were getting the placebo treatment they could still get better. So now, the placebo has working for it the patients hope of getting the treatment and getting better plus the hope that in the case they get the placebo they experience the placebo effect and get better anyways. Alternatively, placebo effect now only has working against it the "off chance" that if the patient gets the placebo he also does not experience the placebo effect. (Ie 2/3 odds at recovering) Now, start with press releases like this and start stating that the placebo is so powerful, it always works--so much so we aren't going to bother giving the real drug to trial patients any more and just give them all sugar pills.. Then you'll get to watch placebo patients start consistently out performing trial drug patients at health recovery that eventually the above statement will be true. And while I wrote this comment in good humor, I do think it's a valid argument that circular logic explains that the placebo effect is getting stronger because of the placebo effect (people believing in it). In fact, it may be the only valid and legitimate use case of circular logic.

sp332 15y ago
There's at least one study recently that shows this effect. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect... Even if you tell the patients that it's a placebo, they still get better.
- jarin 15y ago
  Maybe it's an example of the Hawthorne Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect Unfortunately, there probably isn't an ethical way to subject people to medical testing without their knowledge.
- pella 15y ago
  other article by Steve Silberman ( December 22, 2010 ) "Meet the Ethical Placebo: A Story that Heals" http://blogs.plos.org/neurotribes/2010/12/22/meet-the-ethical-placebo-a-story-that-heals/ http://blogs.plos.org/neurotribes/2010/12/22/meet-the-ethica... about IBS placebo study: "Silberman: One interesting aspect of this study is that it suggests that are two layers of belief in the brain — one that knows there’s nothing in this pill, and another that knows that a placebo can be an effective treatment. It’s as if the brain can entertain two different notions of the effectiveness of a pill at once. Kirsch: Yes, but they’re not contradictory notions. I believe in both. I know that this pill does not contain a physically active ingredient, and I also understand the conditioning process. I know that the placebo effect is real, so I understand that this inert pill might help trigger that healing response within me. We need to recognize and understand that patients are active agents in their treatment, not passive. The placebo effect does not come from the pill. It comes from the patient."
5hoom 15y ago
This is a very interesting observation. I know a few registered nurses who had to study the placebo effect to earn their degree and I recall that placebos are only effective if the patient has a belief that the treatment would work (and then they are only about 30% effective). following that logic it could be possible that placebo treatments become more effective as more of the population _believes_ that they are effective. You just have to hope that no one pops the placebo-belief bubble for a particular treatment, or people might see that the emperor has no clothes ;)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
ryanklee 15y ago
Has it been at all shown that the placebo effect is at all correlated with any psychological frame or disposition whatsoever?
redthrowaway 15y ago
That doesn't explain why traditional medicines are stacking up shorter against placebos. If there was an increased belief amongst study participants that they would get better regardless of what they were given, the placebo effect would be just as strong for those who got the real medication. That is, if the medication is 50% effective and the placebo is 30% effective, then those who got the real medication would obtain some benefit both from the medication itself, as well as from the belief that they would gain some benefit from the placebo (which they don't know they didn't get).

sp332 15y ago

There's at least one study recently that shows this effect. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect... Even if you tell the patients that it's a placebo, they still get better.

jarin 15y ago
Maybe it's an example of the Hawthorne Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect Unfortunately, there probably isn't an ethical way to subject people to medical testing without their knowledge.
pella 15y ago
other article by Steve Silberman ( December 22, 2010 ) "Meet the Ethical Placebo: A Story that Heals" http://blogs.plos.org/neurotribes/2010/12/22/meet-the-ethical-placebo-a-story-that-heals/ http://blogs.plos.org/neurotribes/2010/12/22/meet-the-ethica... about IBS placebo study: "Silberman: One interesting aspect of this study is that it suggests that are two layers of belief in the brain — one that knows there’s nothing in this pill, and another that knows that a placebo can be an effective treatment. It’s as if the brain can entertain two different notions of the effectiveness of a pill at once. Kirsch: Yes, but they’re not contradictory notions. I believe in both. I know that this pill does not contain a physically active ingredient, and I also understand the conditioning process. I know that the placebo effect is real, so I understand that this inert pill might help trigger that healing response within me. We need to recognize and understand that patients are active agents in their treatment, not passive. The placebo effect does not come from the pill. It comes from the patient."

5hoom 15y ago

This is a very interesting observation. I know a few registered nurses who had to study the placebo effect to earn their degree and I recall that placebos are only effective if the patient has a belief that the treatment would work (and then they are only about 30% effective). following that logic it could be possible that placebo treatments become more effective as more of the population _believes_ that they are effective. You just have to hope that no one pops the placebo-belief bubble for a particular treatment, or people might see that the emperor has no clothes ;)

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

ryanklee 15y ago

Has it been at all shown that the placebo effect is at all correlated with any psychological frame or disposition whatsoever?

redthrowaway 15y ago

That doesn't explain why traditional medicines are stacking up shorter against placebos. If there was an increased belief amongst study participants that they would get better regardless of what they were given, the placebo effect would be just as strong for those who got the real medication. That is, if the medication is 50% effective and the placebo is 30% effective, then those who got the real medication would obtain some benefit both from the medication itself, as well as from the belief that they would gain some benefit from the placebo (which they don't know they didn't get).