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> “celebrating their racial identity” by acting indistinguishably from white Americans. Ok kids. Now you make the same mistake as all those other race baiters

by Ourgon 5y ago

> “celebrating their racial identity” by acting indistinguishably from white Americans. Ok kids. Now you make the same mistake as all those other race baiters by referring to "white Americans" as a group which acts in a specific way. Would that be white Americans from Portland, Oregon, white Americans from Ketchikan, Alaska, white Americans from San Mateo, California or white Americans from the Ozarks? I'm of Dutch heritage but I live in Sweden. The Netherlands is about 350km north to south, give or take a bit. There is a marked difference in culture between someone from Groningen (the northern-most province) and Limburg (the southern-most), so much so that I (who come from Utrecht, somewhere in the middle) was told in a carnival-parade that "I do not speak to 'Hollanders' (people from anywhere but the southern-most provinces)" by an older woman in Limburg. She was as "white" as I am but she clearly felt we did not have much in common. All that because she heard by my accent that I'm not from Limburg. She would not have said that to an Asian-looking man who spoke Limburgs - and all that within a span of 350 km north to south.

rayiner 5y ago
Your point is well taken—having grown up in the south I have trouble with both the hostility of New York and the polite but aloof coldness of Pacific Northwest. I agree that it’s ordinarily proper to distinguish which white Americans you’re talking about. But in the context of this comparison I think the imprecision is forgivable. Different subgroups of white Americans share traits that make them all quite different from Muslims. For example individualism, informality, and absence of hierarchy. My wife is from Oregon and I’m from Bangladesh. We’ve been married 10 years and I only recently got comfortable with calling her parents by their first names. Meanwhile, she still calls my parents “Mr. __ and Mrs. __” because there’s literally no English equivalent to the polite title you’d use in Bangla to address your in laws.
- Ourgon 5y ago
  > she still calls my parents “Mr. __ and Mrs. __” because there’s literally no English equivalent to the polite title you’d use in Bangla to address your in laws. Use a transliterated version of the Bangla term, it's what my children do when they refer to my parents. In Swedish they'd be "farfar" and "farmor" but they call them "opa" and "oma", these being the Swedish and Dutch words for "grandfather" and "grandmother". The Swedish is more precise since it indicates from which side those grandparents come - handy for genealogists since it can be built up ("farmormor's farfarsmor" is "father's mother's mother's father's father's mother"). Anyway, I was going to remark on the the difference between a Bosnian muslim, A Turkish Sufi (who I consider to be a muslim), a Saudi Hanbiliyya, Iranian Shia and Syrian Ahmadiyya (still a muslim) but never mind. We all refer to people in groups when expedient, usually with benign intent.
desktopninja 5y ago
I've come to understand that race is really just tribalism. For whatever reason that word is not fashionable for mainstream media/politics.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I've come to understand that race is really just tribalism Race is a flavor of tribe, racism is a flavor of tribalism. > For whatever reason that word is not fashionable for mainstream media/politics. “Tribalism” is super fashionable in mainstream (including mainstream media) commentary on society and politics, what are you talking about?

by Ourgon 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

Your point is well taken—having grown up in the south I have trouble with both the hostility of New York and the polite but aloof coldness of Pacific Northwest. I agree that it’s ordinarily proper to distinguish which white Americans you’re talking about. But in the context of this comparison I think the imprecision is forgivable. Different subgroups of white Americans share traits that make them all quite different from Muslims. For example individualism, informality, and absence of hierarchy. My wife is from Oregon and I’m from Bangladesh. We’ve been married 10 years and I only recently got comfortable with calling her parents by their first names. Meanwhile, she still calls my parents “Mr. __ and Mrs. __” because there’s literally no English equivalent to the polite title you’d use in Bangla to address your in laws.

Ourgon 5y ago
> she still calls my parents “Mr. __ and Mrs. __” because there’s literally no English equivalent to the polite title you’d use in Bangla to address your in laws. Use a transliterated version of the Bangla term, it's what my children do when they refer to my parents. In Swedish they'd be "farfar" and "farmor" but they call them "opa" and "oma", these being the Swedish and Dutch words for "grandfather" and "grandmother". The Swedish is more precise since it indicates from which side those grandparents come - handy for genealogists since it can be built up ("farmormor's farfarsmor" is "father's mother's mother's father's father's mother"). Anyway, I was going to remark on the the difference between a Bosnian muslim, A Turkish Sufi (who I consider to be a muslim), a Saudi Hanbiliyya, Iranian Shia and Syrian Ahmadiyya (still a muslim) but never mind. We all refer to people in groups when expedient, usually with benign intent.

desktopninja 5y ago

I've come to understand that race is really just tribalism. For whatever reason that word is not fashionable for mainstream media/politics.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> I've come to understand that race is really just tribalism Race is a flavor of tribe, racism is a flavor of tribalism. > For whatever reason that word is not fashionable for mainstream media/politics. “Tribalism” is super fashionable in mainstream (including mainstream media) commentary on society and politics, what are you talking about?