8 ms·

So sell me! Blackboard does a million things but I really only care about 1. posting syllabuses, links, and documents 2. making randomly generated auto-grading

So sell me! Blackboard does a million things but I really only care about 1. posting syllabuses, links, and documents 2. making randomly generated auto-grading quizzes 3. auto-updating a gradebook. Does your software do these things better? Does it do things I didn't even know I wanted? What are the big ways you hope to make the world of LMS better? Non-techies experience great pain learning complex new software, what awesome improvements justify a switch? I'd love to have some alternatives and some ammo to back them with.

aufreak3 15y ago
I think what niels_olson is asking for is to weigh your time saved versus the collective spent time of the students in some measure when considering the use of an LMS tool. (Disclaimer: I don't use Blackboard, but am curious about the state of LMS art.)
- _delirium 15y ago
  I know I always found these a huge imposition for no gain as a student. Email to a designated address: easy. Run a Unix command on the CS department server to submit: also easy. Deal with some bullshit LMS to figure out what it wants: hours of my time. Even as a prof, they're a pretty mixed bag. For a lot of simple things, it's infinitely easier to ask students to just email me something as an attachment, with a particular subject line, and then set up a quick procmail filter to grab and process the attachments. Then you can actually run scripts on the result, which it turns out in computer science is something you sometimes want to do (you might even want to run tests on code!). The role of these LMSs appears to be to make it as hard as possible to just get a damn zip file with all the data so I can run my scripts, and then also difficult to upload my grading results back into the system. Maybe that would be okay if they included internally all the functionality I might need, but: 1) it's hard to use any functionality they do include; and 2) as far as I can tell, they don't include anything like compiling code with gcc and running instructor-submitted tests on it.
shimms 15y ago
Hi dateembermage, I feel your pain - both in terms of product features as well as the way Blackboard do business, which is exactly why we set about creating an alternative. You might be interested in what we're doing with Lexim (http://www.lexim.com.au http://www.lexim.com.au) - a new take on an old and outdated approach to delivering teaching online. User enjoyment and efficiency are two of the main drivers in our design approach. In my (biased) opinion, I don't think it could be easier to get documents, links and your syllabus into the hands of students. We have randomised, auto-graded quizzes that update the gradebook (without destroying the previous marks) and a whole lot more. Full disclosure: I am one of the founders of Lexim, and thus totally biassed in my view ;). Cheers, Michael
- danteembermage 15y ago
  Thanks for mentioning your product; I signed up for Convergence using the sign up link at the top of the page. Is that the process to sign up for the trial? It looks as though your page is targeted towards University IT rather than individual professors (which is probably the right approach I suppose) but it makes me suspicious that I can't get the "5 professors, unlimited students" trial on my own.
  - shimms 15y ago
    Thanks for signing up, I appreciate it. The signup link is the correct way to get in at the moment; we're currently in closed beta, but once it opens up (soon) anyone can sign up and start using Convergence in minutes, without needing to involve IT (or anyone else). We think individual teachers should be able to choose the best tools they use for their job, be it technological or otherwise. With this in mind individuals can signup and use Convergence without needing to wait for the institution. Also worth noting the free plan isn't a trial - you could continue to use the free plan for ever. If you want to expand Convergence across your department or school, and bring in more teachers and courses then you need to upgrade to a paid plan, but for individuals you can use it for free without an expiry. Thanks for the feedback on the page - we're definitely trying to attract individual educators, not their IT departments, so we'll take a look at how we're expressing that.
niels_olson 15y ago
> So sell me! This. attitude. is. the. problem. Why don't you sit down and watch a student deal with this crap for a couple of hours? Anthropologically, empathetically, observe. > Does your software do these things better? Our motto was to make med school easier one less click at a time. Do that. Focus on that. All the time. And you'll find what you want, even if you have to hire people to write it. IF you have to hire people, make them hand code the solution for your population from scratch. It's cheaper and better than trying to wrap their heads around the steaming pile of crap that any existing LMS is. It's not hard. An ical script, a document importer, a quiz module, connect the three with a database. Add LDAP functions so you can interact with the university's authentication system. The database can poop your grade book on demand. If you want a script to do that, I'm sure there are some abused 4th graders who could put it together for you#. A few med students hammered that out over a Christmas break and some 20% time. The rest is just trash. ---------------------- #only slightly conflating these two essays: http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/53003.htm http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/53003.htm http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gsb1996-12-06.html http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gs...

aufreak3 15y ago

I think what niels_olson is asking for is to weigh your time saved versus the collective spent time of the students in some measure when considering the use of an LMS tool. (Disclaimer: I don't use Blackboard, but am curious about the state of LMS art.)

_delirium 15y ago
I know I always found these a huge imposition for no gain as a student. Email to a designated address: easy. Run a Unix command on the CS department server to submit: also easy. Deal with some bullshit LMS to figure out what it wants: hours of my time. Even as a prof, they're a pretty mixed bag. For a lot of simple things, it's infinitely easier to ask students to just email me something as an attachment, with a particular subject line, and then set up a quick procmail filter to grab and process the attachments. Then you can actually run scripts on the result, which it turns out in computer science is something you sometimes want to do (you might even want to run tests on code!). The role of these LMSs appears to be to make it as hard as possible to just get a damn zip file with all the data so I can run my scripts, and then also difficult to upload my grading results back into the system. Maybe that would be okay if they included internally all the functionality I might need, but: 1) it's hard to use any functionality they do include; and 2) as far as I can tell, they don't include anything like compiling code with gcc and running instructor-submitted tests on it.

shimms 15y ago

Hi dateembermage, I feel your pain - both in terms of product features as well as the way Blackboard do business, which is exactly why we set about creating an alternative. You might be interested in what we're doing with Lexim (http://www.lexim.com.au http://www.lexim.com.au) - a new take on an old and outdated approach to delivering teaching online. User enjoyment and efficiency are two of the main drivers in our design approach. In my (biased) opinion, I don't think it could be easier to get documents, links and your syllabus into the hands of students. We have randomised, auto-graded quizzes that update the gradebook (without destroying the previous marks) and a whole lot more. Full disclosure: I am one of the founders of Lexim, and thus totally biassed in my view ;). Cheers, Michael

danteembermage 15y ago
Thanks for mentioning your product; I signed up for Convergence using the sign up link at the top of the page. Is that the process to sign up for the trial? It looks as though your page is targeted towards University IT rather than individual professors (which is probably the right approach I suppose) but it makes me suspicious that I can't get the "5 professors, unlimited students" trial on my own.
- shimms 15y ago
  Thanks for signing up, I appreciate it. The signup link is the correct way to get in at the moment; we're currently in closed beta, but once it opens up (soon) anyone can sign up and start using Convergence in minutes, without needing to involve IT (or anyone else). We think individual teachers should be able to choose the best tools they use for their job, be it technological or otherwise. With this in mind individuals can signup and use Convergence without needing to wait for the institution. Also worth noting the free plan isn't a trial - you could continue to use the free plan for ever. If you want to expand Convergence across your department or school, and bring in more teachers and courses then you need to upgrade to a paid plan, but for individuals you can use it for free without an expiry. Thanks for the feedback on the page - we're definitely trying to attract individual educators, not their IT departments, so we'll take a look at how we're expressing that.

niels_olson 15y ago

> So sell me! This. attitude. is. the. problem. Why don't you sit down and watch a student deal with this crap for a couple of hours? Anthropologically, empathetically, observe. > Does your software do these things better? Our motto was to make med school easier one less click at a time. Do that. Focus on that. All the time. And you'll find what you want, even if you have to hire people to write it. IF you have to hire people, make them hand code the solution for your population from scratch. It's cheaper and better than trying to wrap their heads around the steaming pile of crap that any existing LMS is. It's not hard. An ical script, a document importer, a quiz module, connect the three with a database. Add LDAP functions so you can interact with the university's authentication system. The database can poop your grade book on demand. If you want a script to do that, I'm sure there are some abused 4th graders who could put it together for you#. A few med students hammered that out over a Christmas break and some 20% time. The rest is just trash. ---------------------- #only slightly conflating these two essays: http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/53003.htm http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/53003.htm http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gsb1996-12-06.html http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gs...