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Your criticism is fair. However "obedient" isn't always what an engineering organization needs. Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak

Your criticism is fair. However "obedient" isn't always what an engineering organization needs. Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or what, but it seems they are more hesitant to speak out. It has been my anecdotal observation that our US-born hires are way quicker to say something to management if they feel something is wrong. I mean no disrespect, by this observation.

democracy 5y ago
I've seen when an Indian team (doesn't matter though, could be from any other country) was hired with one reason - to shift the blame as the project was going to shits. Also if you are on a sponsored visa, you gonna stay quiet no matter what's happening - your interest is somewhat to stay afloat, not to seek truth or revenge.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug For the right bill rate, it could be a pretty entertaining role to play.
sombremesa 5y ago
An example of what happens when you "speak out" (read: do anything but be servile) in India: https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 > Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. > our US-born hires are way quicker to say something to management if they feel something is wrong Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you?
- kelnos 5y ago
  > Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you? This seems to be an unnecessarily aggressive take on it. If I (an American) were working for an Indian company, I would plan to learn and understand what the culture is like in Indian companies, and then do my best to conform to that. If I didn't believe I'd feel comfortable in that environment, then I wouldn't take the job. I would expect an Indian working at an American company to do the same. I get that it can be difficult, and that some of these cultural things aren't just company culture, but are deeply ingrained, real cultural differences between people of different backgrounds. Having said all that, I do think a US manager who hires reports from India (or from any other country with a different culture than the US) should be aware of what cultural differences exist, and try to meet their employees in the middle as much as they can. I do agree with the grandparent, though, that I don't want to work with people who are "obedient", at least in the way I'm guessing the great-grandparent meant (perhaps I'm inferring the meaning incorrectly, though). I agree that I want people who won't just do what management says, and will instead apply critical thinking to the work they get assigned, and question things that don't make sense.
  - Slaminerag 5y ago
    I remember reading about a team (I think in Japan) which had a "brash foreigner." If someone noticed something, they'd mention it to the foreigner, who would bring it up with higher ups. Everybody won. Problems got fixed, the foreigner was safe because they "didn't know better," and their coworkers felt safe.
    - TehShrike 5y ago
      I was today years old when I discovered that the perfect job for me does exist
      - scrollaway 5y ago
        FYI, if you want that job and don't happen to be in Japan, this is exactly what consultants are hired for in many cases: To be a blunt voice of reason in an environment which isn't able to listen to itself. I've many times been hired in companies to say things employees didn't have the political clout to say out loud. If anything goes wrong, or someone isn't happy, I'm the fall guy.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
BareNakedCoder 5y ago
Read "Speaking of India" by Storti. It really helped me understand a lot of the strangeness I also observed working with India-born coworkers and contractors.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mcv 5y ago
Absolutely. There's some cultural aspect that doesn't always work well in an engineering environment. Almost 3 years ago I had to hire 4 new team members, and two had to be from TCS. At some point in the process, I was happy to just find someone who was able to say "I don't know" to a question. Several tried to bullshit their way through by answering a completely different question than what I asked. Eventually I found two. One of them was a really solid hire. Backbone of the team. Still not as vocal as any of the non-TCS devs (one of whom was also Indian, but very vocal about his opinion), but he got stuff done and did it well.

democracy 5y ago

I've seen when an Indian team (doesn't matter though, could be from any other country) was hired with one reason - to shift the blame as the project was going to shits. Also if you are on a sponsored visa, you gonna stay quiet no matter what's happening - your interest is somewhat to stay afloat, not to seek truth or revenge.

stickfigure 5y ago
Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug For the right bill rate, it could be a pretty entertaining role to play.

sombremesa 5y ago

An example of what happens when you "speak out" (read: do anything but be servile) in India: https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 > Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. > our US-born hires are way quicker to say something to management if they feel something is wrong Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you?

kelnos 5y ago
> Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you? This seems to be an unnecessarily aggressive take on it. If I (an American) were working for an Indian company, I would plan to learn and understand what the culture is like in Indian companies, and then do my best to conform to that. If I didn't believe I'd feel comfortable in that environment, then I wouldn't take the job. I would expect an Indian working at an American company to do the same. I get that it can be difficult, and that some of these cultural things aren't just company culture, but are deeply ingrained, real cultural differences between people of different backgrounds. Having said all that, I do think a US manager who hires reports from India (or from any other country with a different culture than the US) should be aware of what cultural differences exist, and try to meet their employees in the middle as much as they can. I do agree with the grandparent, though, that I don't want to work with people who are "obedient", at least in the way I'm guessing the great-grandparent meant (perhaps I'm inferring the meaning incorrectly, though). I agree that I want people who won't just do what management says, and will instead apply critical thinking to the work they get assigned, and question things that don't make sense.
- Slaminerag 5y ago
  I remember reading about a team (I think in Japan) which had a "brash foreigner." If someone noticed something, they'd mention it to the foreigner, who would bring it up with higher ups. Everybody won. Problems got fixed, the foreigner was safe because they "didn't know better," and their coworkers felt safe.
  - TehShrike 5y ago
    I was today years old when I discovered that the perfect job for me does exist
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      FYI, if you want that job and don't happen to be in Japan, this is exactly what consultants are hired for in many cases: To be a blunt voice of reason in an environment which isn't able to listen to itself. I've many times been hired in companies to say things employees didn't have the political clout to say out loud. If anything goes wrong, or someone isn't happy, I'm the fall guy.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

BareNakedCoder 5y ago

Read "Speaking of India" by Storti. It really helped me understand a lot of the strangeness I also observed working with India-born coworkers and contractors.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mcv 5y ago

Absolutely. There's some cultural aspect that doesn't always work well in an engineering environment. Almost 3 years ago I had to hire 4 new team members, and two had to be from TCS. At some point in the process, I was happy to just find someone who was able to say "I don't know" to a question. Several tried to bullshit their way through by answering a completely different question than what I asked. Eventually I found two. One of them was a really solid hire. Backbone of the team. Still not as vocal as any of the non-TCS devs (one of whom was also Indian, but very vocal about his opinion), but he got stuff done and did it well.