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I'll present an alternate case, mine. I'm in a senior IC role sitting in India making almost 1/4th of what my US Counterpart makes. I work as much as them if no

• angrais 5y ago
  Are you paid a fair market rate for your geographical location in India? (i.e., are other local companies offering worse or better benefits?)
  • manmal 5y ago
    If they earn the equivalent of 30-50k (25% of a US senior IC), I imagine they can afford a decent standard of living, eg in Mumbai.
    • no1lives4ever 5y ago
      30k usd maps to 2.2million inr. Which is the kind of pay a quality junior employee with 3-4 years of experience can get in a quality firm. There has been an explosion in tech salaries in the last 4-5 years and these days most companies are finding it tough to fill up their positions. Quality resources can easily get 50% of what a equavalent role would get them in the US.
  • no1lives4ever 5y ago
    These days, equavalent salaries in india are between 1/4th to 1/2 of equavalent american or uk salary for the same job. Adjusting for cost of living is a bit tricky as there are many things which are cheaper in India, but many things that a sw developer may want to buy are not so. In general electronic items are a bit more expensive in India, but things like rent, cost of food, clothing, cost of a basic car are lesser here in India. OTOH, mostly it is not apples to apples comparison. e.g. you can get cars for 5-8000 usd here in India, but those cars would most likely be illegal to sell in the US. When the manufacturers sell the same exact model here in India, the prices are a lot higher. So if OP says that they get 1/4th of the salary that people from US get for same role, then I feel that he is most likely underpaid.
    • passivate 5y ago
      >but those cars would most likely be illegal to sell in the US. When the manufacturers sell the same exact model here in India, I'm curious what you mean by illegal. Do you mean they won't pass emissions or safety?
      • no1lives4ever 5y ago
        Mostly will not pass safety or minimum equipment standards. Renault was known to sell cars in India with airbags that were inferior to what they supplied elsewhere. Indian emission laws are fairly strict but based on euro standards, so most cars should pass non ca emissions test.
        • passivate 5y ago
          Hmm, thats interesting. I would have thought that it would be cheaper to mass produce just one version for all markets.
  • LAC-Tech 5y ago
    There's no such thing as a 'fair' rate.
• engineerthrwawy 5y ago
  Your criticism is fair. However "obedient" isn't always what an engineering organization needs. Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or what, but it seems they are more hesitant to speak out. It has been my anecdotal observation that our US-born hires are way quicker to say something to management if they feel something is wrong. I mean no disrespect, by this observation.
  • democracy 5y ago
    I've seen when an Indian team (doesn't matter though, could be from any other country) was hired with one reason - to shift the blame as the project was going to shits. Also if you are on a sponsored visa, you gonna stay quiet no matter what's happening - your interest is somewhat to stay afloat, not to seek truth or revenge.
    • stickfigure 5y ago
      Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e134NoLyTug For the right bill rate, it could be a pretty entertaining role to play.
  • sombremesa 5y ago
    An example of what happens when you "speak out" (read: do anything but be servile) in India: https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 https://twitter.com/Reashiee/status/1484811188844199936 > Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. > our US-born hires are way quicker to say something to management if they feel something is wrong Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you?
    • kelnos 5y ago
      > Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you? This seems to be an unnecessarily aggressive take on it. If I (an American) were working for an Indian company, I would plan to learn and understand what the culture is like in Indian companies, and then do my best to conform to that. If I didn't believe I'd feel comfortable in that environment, then I wouldn't take the job. I would expect an Indian working at an American company to do the same. I get that it can be difficult, and that some of these cultural things aren't just company culture, but are deeply ingrained, real cultural differences between people of different backgrounds. Having said all that, I do think a US manager who hires reports from India (or from any other country with a different culture than the US) should be aware of what cultural differences exist, and try to meet their employees in the middle as much as they can. I do agree with the grandparent, though, that I don't want to work with people who are "obedient", at least in the way I'm guessing the great-grandparent meant (perhaps I'm inferring the meaning incorrectly, though). I agree that I want people who won't just do what management says, and will instead apply critical thinking to the work they get assigned, and question things that don't make sense.
• Johnny555 5y ago
  I'm highly underpaid for the same work. A large part of the justification of using outsourced workers is that they live in an area with a lower cost of living than the company's headquarters, so they can be paid less while still having a good quality of life. So comparing your salary to American workers doesn't really say anything about whether or not you're "underpaid", but it's how your salary compares to others in your area. If you just want to earn more money, you could move to the USA, but there's a cost associated with that (even ignoring the difficulty in getting a work visa) and you may find that your "1/4 salary" is worth more at home that it is in the USA.| There are certainly a lot of employees that have moved away from the SF Bay Area to take a job in an area with a lower cost of living and even though they make significiantly less money, they still have a better quality of life (in particular, they can afford a house)
  • iypx 5y ago
    > A large part of the justification of using outsourced workers is that they live in an area with a lower cost of living than the company's headquarters, so they can be paid less while still having a good quality of life. Maybe a good quality of life compared to other people from the same area... but nowhere even close to that of an American worker. No idea where you got that "1/4 salary is worth more at home" from, when in my experience I used to be able to feed myself with 10 GBP/week on average in UK, now I'm spending close to 15 GBP/week in Moldova. Tech/computers/phones are about twice as expensive here, used cars ~10 times more expensive at the lower-end, mid/high-end about the same (at least you don't have to spend crazy amounts of money on parts since getting the MOT equiv here is much easier, so you can fix your car with whatever hammer and lattice from your neighbor's garage..) Utilites about the same. Rent is cheaper, since most people live with their families overcrowded in tiny appartments... The cost of "living" is higher, most people just don't know how poor people live. Most people can't even imagine eating ten pounds a week...
    • Johnny555 5y ago
      Maybe a good quality of life compared to other people from the same area... but nowhere even close to that of an American worker. If you want the same quality of life as an American worker, the best way to achieve it is to be an American worker since you can always pick and choose things that are objectively "worse" in any arbitrary country. For example, you cite the high cost of cars as an example of why a country has a worse quality of life, but others may point to American car dependence as worse for their quality of life. No idea where you got that "1/4 salary is worth more at home" from Probably because that's not what I said. I said "you may find that your "1/4 salary" is worth more at home that it is in the USA.", Obviously I didn't mean that to mean in all situations. I wouldn't expect that someone living on £10/week in the UK would be able to live comfortably on £2.50/week in any arbitrary country I have a friend that took advantage of COVID work from home to move to Indonesia (where his wife is from) - he said they pay less for all costs of living than he did just on their apartment in the SF Bay Area. He's still drawing his Bay Area salary, but is not going back to the office, when return to office becomes mandatory, he'll just quit and retire where he is. He feels that he has a far superior quality of life there. It's not the same as Bay Area life, but far more relaxing.
• MonaroVXR 5y ago
  I feel this personally, as a non-white person.
• no1lives4ever 5y ago
  Maybe it is time to get a new job. These days there is a big shortage of tech talent and deserving candidates can get very good pay in India. The typical trick is to apply for and interview to as many companies as you can. Get a good offer and put in your papers. Given that most companies have a 2-3 month notice period, once you are on notice, you can continue applying for jobs and shop around. The funded startups in India are paying very good money to their staff. Even somewhat junior resources with 4-5 years of experience can get in excess of 50l inr per anum, which is roughly 65k usd in cities like Hyderabad, Bangalore & Gurgaon.
  • ethbr0 5y ago
    2-3 month notice?! Holy shit, is this really standard? In the US, it's univerally 2 weeks.
    • passivate 5y ago
      To add - The 'notice' is a nicety. AFAIK, most employer-employee contracts in the US are at-will where either party can cancel the contract and part ways at any time for any reason.
    • sumedh 5y ago
      Depends, in companies which have good reputation its usually 1 month but in the IT outsourcing companies it can be upto 3 months.
    • no1lives4ever 5y ago
      Typically 3 months these days in India. Used to be 1 month in past, but over the years, all the IT outsourcing firms have started using 3 months notice.
    • MandieD 5y ago
      In Germany, most contracts (and any regular job has a contract) say something like 1 month notice for the first six months on both the employer and employee’s side, and 3 months for the employee after that trial period, and possibly longer for the employer after you’ve been around for several years. My colleagues were shocked when I confirmed that offering more than two weeks’ notice in the US is super nice to your employer, and two weeks is not considered unprofessional.
• democracy 5y ago
  If you are trying to prove anything to your managers - it's a waste of time. If your peers are happy with you - it's all that matters. Looks like it got professional work ethics and it's something to be proud of. Having worked onshore, offshore, remotely - I don't think there is any difference really.
• onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  I got paid 15% less to transfer from one city to another 100 miles away. You get paid based on where you live, unfortunately. Although 1/4th sounds a bit extreme for India. My understanding is that FAANG is paying more than half - and considering the cost of living - I know a lot of people that willingly took gigantic pay cuts to transfer back to India. I mean - for one - ~45% of your income goes straight to tax in CA - in India IIUC it's 20%.
• hogrider 5y ago
  You're being complicit in your own exploitation and alienation.