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> One reason is that mRNA vaccines can be developed much faster than traditional vaccines. So the idea is you have a better chance of "outrunning" a strain. Is

by xienze 5y ago

> One reason is that mRNA vaccines can be developed much faster than traditional vaccines. So the idea is you have a better chance of "outrunning" a strain. Is that why the response to Delta was "just take another dose of the original formulation" and the response to Omicron was "just take another dose of the original formulation until we have the new one made up in a few months"? And who doesn't see another strain taking over in the next few months, rendering this new formulation less effective than originally promised? My math may be off but there's been exactly one new Covid vaccine formulation in a little over a year, which is about how fast we crank out new flu vaccine formulations. Why exactly did we need to use mRNA tech to crank out new vaccines at the same speed as we did with traditional vaccines?

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> Why exactly did we need to use mRNA tech to crank out new vaccines at the same speed as we did with traditional vaccines? mRNA tech is a lot newer than "traditional vaccines". I do not expect that the mRNA process is run at the same speed with the same degree of confidence at the same number of facilities. Yet.
asveikau 5y ago
I suspect the fact that we're in the middle of a pandemic has something to do with this, though. In particular, the demand is such that we urgently need hundreds of millions (or billions?) of doses. That takes a lot of effort to roll out. Most vaccines probably don't see use at that scale and speed. An HIV vaccine, for example, would probably initially only go out to communities with higher risk.
selcuka 5y ago
They have trialled variant specific vaccines for both Delta and Omicron. It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. Omicron, on the other hand, seems to be evading the immunity created by the Alpha vaccine, so they are actually planning to start producing an Omicron specific booster (or more correctly Alpha+Omicron) after FDA approval.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > They have trialled variant specific vaccines for both Delta and Omicron. It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. No, it wasn't; in fact, the Pfizer-BioNtech Omicron variant-specifc vaccine and booster trial was announced only a week ago, while Novavax plans to begin testing an Omicron-specific vaccine imminently. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-study-evaluate-omicron-based https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... https://ir.novavax.com/2021-12-22-Novavax-Announces-Initial-Omicron-Cross-Reactivity-Data-from-COVID-19-Vaccine-Booster-and-Adolescent-Studies https://ir.novavax.com/2021-12-22-Novavax-Announces-Initial-...
  - selcuka 5y ago
    > No, it wasn't I said "for Delta". If you read the rest of my comment I mentioned the upcoming Omicron vaccine too.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > said "for Delta". You said, well, exactly what I quoted, which was that variant-specific vaccines for Delta and Omicron were tried, found less effective than the the existing vaccines, and abandoned. That is false. > I mentioned the upcoming Omicron vaccine too. No, you said that after abandoning Delta/Omicron variant-specific vaccines, “they” decided to work on mixed Omicron/Alpha boosters. That is also false. Novavax is planning to trial Omicron-specific vaccine. Pfizer is trialing Omicron specific vaccines, both as sole vaccines and as boosters after existing vaccines. Moderna is, I think, working on an Omicron-specific booster-only (after existing vaccines) approach.
      - comp_throw7 5y ago
        > which was that variant-specific vaccines for Delta and Omicron were tried, found less effective than the the existing vaccines, and abandoned > It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. Omicron, on the other hand, seems to be evading the immunity created by the Alpha vaccine, so they are actually planning to start producing an Omicron specific booster (or more correctly Alpha+Omicron) after FDA approval. ??????????? The thing he said may not have been strictly accurate but your claim about what he said is much less accurate than that.

by xienze 5y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

> Why exactly did we need to use mRNA tech to crank out new vaccines at the same speed as we did with traditional vaccines? mRNA tech is a lot newer than "traditional vaccines". I do not expect that the mRNA process is run at the same speed with the same degree of confidence at the same number of facilities. Yet.

asveikau 5y ago

I suspect the fact that we're in the middle of a pandemic has something to do with this, though. In particular, the demand is such that we urgently need hundreds of millions (or billions?) of doses. That takes a lot of effort to roll out. Most vaccines probably don't see use at that scale and speed. An HIV vaccine, for example, would probably initially only go out to communities with higher risk.

selcuka 5y ago

They have trialled variant specific vaccines for both Delta and Omicron. It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. Omicron, on the other hand, seems to be evading the immunity created by the Alpha vaccine, so they are actually planning to start producing an Omicron specific booster (or more correctly Alpha+Omicron) after FDA approval.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> They have trialled variant specific vaccines for both Delta and Omicron. It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. No, it wasn't; in fact, the Pfizer-BioNtech Omicron variant-specifc vaccine and booster trial was announced only a week ago, while Novavax plans to begin testing an Omicron-specific vaccine imminently. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-study-evaluate-omicron-based https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... https://ir.novavax.com/2021-12-22-Novavax-Announces-Initial-Omicron-Cross-Reactivity-Data-from-COVID-19-Vaccine-Booster-and-Adolescent-Studies https://ir.novavax.com/2021-12-22-Novavax-Announces-Initial-...
- selcuka 5y ago
  > No, it wasn't I said "for Delta". If you read the rest of my comment I mentioned the upcoming Omicron vaccine too.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > said "for Delta". You said, well, exactly what I quoted, which was that variant-specific vaccines for Delta and Omicron were tried, found less effective than the the existing vaccines, and abandoned. That is false. > I mentioned the upcoming Omicron vaccine too. No, you said that after abandoning Delta/Omicron variant-specific vaccines, “they” decided to work on mixed Omicron/Alpha boosters. That is also false. Novavax is planning to trial Omicron-specific vaccine. Pfizer is trialing Omicron specific vaccines, both as sole vaccines and as boosters after existing vaccines. Moderna is, I think, working on an Omicron-specific booster-only (after existing vaccines) approach.
    - comp_throw7 5y ago
      > which was that variant-specific vaccines for Delta and Omicron were tried, found less effective than the the existing vaccines, and abandoned > It turned out that the original vaccine is as effective for Delta, so that work was shelved. Omicron, on the other hand, seems to be evading the immunity created by the Alpha vaccine, so they are actually planning to start producing an Omicron specific booster (or more correctly Alpha+Omicron) after FDA approval. ??????????? The thing he said may not have been strictly accurate but your claim about what he said is much less accurate than that.