4 ms·

Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics. When's the last time you saw a bro

by sho_hn 5y ago

Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics. When's the last time you saw a broken-down car by the side of the road, and is this happening more or less often than 20 years ago? Do you think cars require more or less upkeep and maintenance than 20 years ago? Yes, cars do have some new components that have introduced new failure modes, and some of those may be doing worse than others. But as a whole, cars have improved.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I think overall you're right but I suspect the proliferation of luxury electronic features has subjected higher class slices of the population to more failures than they saw before. In 2004 these people bought Camrys and drove them uneventfully. The base car hasn't changed but now that car has half a dozen switches and motors in both front seats the failure of any one of which requires it to be fixed. If the lever in your '04 was finicky you just pulled/pushed slightly harder and were not the wiser.
antod 5y ago
> When's the last time you saw a broken-down car by the side of the road, and is this happening more or less often than 20 years ago? The same? Cars 20yrs ago were already very reliable compared to say 30-40yrs ago. And breakdowns observed 20 yrs ago were mostly cars that were aleady old then. If I see a broken down car now (which is rare anyway), it could almost be age from 30+yrs old to new. There doesn't seem to be a pattern with age. Adjusting for 20yr old cars having 20yrs more wear and tear, you would expect a pattern correlating with age. I wonder what todays cars are going to seem like in 20yrs? Note: I'm not in the US or Europe, so my observations of the car population may be different to those that are. My cars have usually been 15-20 yrs old Japanese models, bought cheaply 2nd hand, mostly neglected, but still very reliable machines.
MisterTea 5y ago
> Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics. Yup. Just like my friends 2010 VW which went into limp home mode after he drove through a puddle a year after he bought it. Dealer had to replace some doodad to the tune of $500 for the part. He then bought a Mercedes in 2013 that started to kill the battery after a month because the park lamps refused to turn off. Mercedes could not figure out the issue even after swapping so they removed the park lamps. All caused by fragile electronics. Meanwhile I plowed the 2002 chevy van through a deep puddle once (being young and dumb) and it coughed, sputtered but kept going until it dried off and then resumed purring. > Do you think cars require more or less upkeep and maintenance than 20 years ago? Since I do my own upkeep including engine and tranny swaps (project vehicles), the upkeep is pretty much the same. Check/change oil, and check/top off fluids 4 times year. Then brakes and tires. Worst case check plugs and so on after 50k but those show up as misfires that are easy to feel. All the vehicles I have experience with are 1995 and newer with some 1980's trucks and vans thrown in. You also have to account for a lot of wear and tear that came from fuel changes. When lead was eliminated the leaded cars suffered from premature ring and piston failure. And when we phased out MTBE we also suffered as alcohol was attacking metal and rubber components with oxidation causing failures. So these changes might make older cars seem less reliable but the fact is we forced them to be that way (for the better).

by sho_hn 5y ago

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

I think overall you're right but I suspect the proliferation of luxury electronic features has subjected higher class slices of the population to more failures than they saw before. In 2004 these people bought Camrys and drove them uneventfully. The base car hasn't changed but now that car has half a dozen switches and motors in both front seats the failure of any one of which requires it to be fixed. If the lever in your '04 was finicky you just pulled/pushed slightly harder and were not the wiser.

antod 5y ago

> When's the last time you saw a broken-down car by the side of the road, and is this happening more or less often than 20 years ago? The same? Cars 20yrs ago were already very reliable compared to say 30-40yrs ago. And breakdowns observed 20 yrs ago were mostly cars that were aleady old then. If I see a broken down car now (which is rare anyway), it could almost be age from 30+yrs old to new. There doesn't seem to be a pattern with age. Adjusting for 20yr old cars having 20yrs more wear and tear, you would expect a pattern correlating with age. I wonder what todays cars are going to seem like in 20yrs? Note: I'm not in the US or Europe, so my observations of the car population may be different to those that are. My cars have usually been 15-20 yrs old Japanese models, bought cheaply 2nd hand, mostly neglected, but still very reliable machines.

MisterTea 5y ago

> Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics. Yup. Just like my friends 2010 VW which went into limp home mode after he drove through a puddle a year after he bought it. Dealer had to replace some doodad to the tune of $500 for the part. He then bought a Mercedes in 2013 that started to kill the battery after a month because the park lamps refused to turn off. Mercedes could not figure out the issue even after swapping so they removed the park lamps. All caused by fragile electronics. Meanwhile I plowed the 2002 chevy van through a deep puddle once (being young and dumb) and it coughed, sputtered but kept going until it dried off and then resumed purring. > Do you think cars require more or less upkeep and maintenance than 20 years ago? Since I do my own upkeep including engine and tranny swaps (project vehicles), the upkeep is pretty much the same. Check/change oil, and check/top off fluids 4 times year. Then brakes and tires. Worst case check plugs and so on after 50k but those show up as misfires that are easy to feel. All the vehicles I have experience with are 1995 and newer with some 1980's trucks and vans thrown in. You also have to account for a lot of wear and tear that came from fuel changes. When lead was eliminated the leaded cars suffered from premature ring and piston failure. And when we phased out MTBE we also suffered as alcohol was attacking metal and rubber components with oxidation causing failures. So these changes might make older cars seem less reliable but the fact is we forced them to be that way (for the better).