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I'm on Debian unstable. Giving wayland a chance once per month on intel and nvidia cards. It seems usable on Intel although many minor X11 habits are broken (li

I'm on Debian unstable. Giving wayland a chance once per month on intel and nvidia cards. It seems usable on Intel although many minor X11 habits are broken (like selection), but totally unusable on nvidia (black screen). X11 is still way to go, as 13 year in development is not enough for Wayland.

boudin 5y ago
Nvidia just fixed its driver this year, and it's still not in great shape. You can only blame Nvidia for that. We have quite different experiences I guess. On my side I just see that the recurring graphical issues that I had with X11 are fixed. Everything is super smooth, no tearing and really stable. Bonus points some of the side initiatives also improved a lot the ecosystem, like Pipewire.
myownfriend 5y ago
Currently running Gnome from a Wayland session with Nvidia's 510.39.01 drivers without issue. It's not Wayland that's not ready yet, it's the ecosystem around it. While the first commit on the Wayland git was in 2008, it's client and server APIs weren't considered stable until 2013 and then DE support for it only really picked up in 2016 since they were built around X11 from the beginning. If you were an Nvidia user then your options for DEs were limited to the ones that supported EGLStreams and you didn't get XWayland hardware acceleration or support for Webrender in Firefox until Nvidia started support DMA-buf in June of last year. Nvidia didn't support GBM until October of this year but it had an annoying memory leak which caused issues with programs not wanting to launch of launching as black squares. On top of that, the code that compositors and XWayland used to detect whether to use GBM or EGLStreams didn't work at first and XWayland windows launched as transparent so they needed to be updated. It wasn't until these beta drivers, which came out this month, that I'm able to do everything I'm supposed to be able to do in a Wayland session and the major hurdles in Wayland adoption on Nvidia have been removed. Kwin already removed it's EGLStreams backend because it never worked well to begin with and the drivers will only improve from now on.
pmontra 5y ago
Selecting text with left clicks and pasting it with a middle click is a major feature of X11 IMHO. As a developer I copy and paste text all the time usually the X11 way, because if I select it's already in the clipboard and Ctrl-C is useless. I'm using a laptop with touchpad so I don't have to move my hands away from the keyboard. If I had to use a mouse then maybe I'd use Ctrl-C/V. I also Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V files between directories in the file browser but not every week. I can also drag and drop them (move or copy). Everything other use of the clipboard happens less than once per month. If left click / middle click doesn't work between all Wayland applications I can wait until all toolkits support it or X11 is removed from Linux.

boudin 5y ago

Nvidia just fixed its driver this year, and it's still not in great shape. You can only blame Nvidia for that. We have quite different experiences I guess. On my side I just see that the recurring graphical issues that I had with X11 are fixed. Everything is super smooth, no tearing and really stable. Bonus points some of the side initiatives also improved a lot the ecosystem, like Pipewire.

myownfriend 5y ago

Currently running Gnome from a Wayland session with Nvidia's 510.39.01 drivers without issue. It's not Wayland that's not ready yet, it's the ecosystem around it. While the first commit on the Wayland git was in 2008, it's client and server APIs weren't considered stable until 2013 and then DE support for it only really picked up in 2016 since they were built around X11 from the beginning. If you were an Nvidia user then your options for DEs were limited to the ones that supported EGLStreams and you didn't get XWayland hardware acceleration or support for Webrender in Firefox until Nvidia started support DMA-buf in June of last year. Nvidia didn't support GBM until October of this year but it had an annoying memory leak which caused issues with programs not wanting to launch of launching as black squares. On top of that, the code that compositors and XWayland used to detect whether to use GBM or EGLStreams didn't work at first and XWayland windows launched as transparent so they needed to be updated. It wasn't until these beta drivers, which came out this month, that I'm able to do everything I'm supposed to be able to do in a Wayland session and the major hurdles in Wayland adoption on Nvidia have been removed. Kwin already removed it's EGLStreams backend because it never worked well to begin with and the drivers will only improve from now on.

pmontra 5y ago

Selecting text with left clicks and pasting it with a middle click is a major feature of X11 IMHO. As a developer I copy and paste text all the time usually the X11 way, because if I select it's already in the clipboard and Ctrl-C is useless. I'm using a laptop with touchpad so I don't have to move my hands away from the keyboard. If I had to use a mouse then maybe I'd use Ctrl-C/V. I also Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V files between directories in the file browser but not every week. I can also drag and drop them (move or copy). Everything other use of the clipboard happens less than once per month. If left click / middle click doesn't work between all Wayland applications I can wait until all toolkits support it or X11 is removed from Linux.