5 ms·

I think it's just a matter of time before we see a Super Bowl or World Series thrown due to the legalization of Sport betting... We have been here before and s

I think it's just a matter of time before we see a Super Bowl or World Series thrown due to the legalization of Sport betting... We have been here before and seen all of this before and it's really hard to believe history won't repeat itself. It's stupid all the way down.

webkike 5y ago
Matter of time? The World Series has already been thrown, it was called the black Sox scandal and as far as I know it didn’t even require sports betting to be legal
- MengerSponge 5y ago
  Exactly. It's happened in our lifetimes too in the NBA: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-...
- asdff 5y ago
  Thrown with the astros recently too. Can't believe heads didn't roll for that scandal.
philwelch 5y ago
Sports betting has been legal in Europe for a very long time and we have yet to see a UEFA Champions League thrown.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  That you know of. How does anyone know? Edits: Imagine the NFL learns that yesterday's NFC Championship game was fixed. What would they do? Make it public and destroy their entire enterprise? My guess is that many would hide it if they could, and the people involved certainly wouldn't want to talk about it. And imagine if they learn about it in 6 months, long after the Super Bowl. Just in terms of on-field results, how do they fix the problem? Take back the trophy from a team and city that thought they won it six months ago? Replay the game in August?
  - dylan604 5y ago
    >That you know of. How does anyone know? How many of those skied shots, sliced shots, etc were bad skill or skillfully done to ensure the line was what was needed/required? It's a pandora's box to start looking at everything a professional athlete/ref/manager does through that lens. It's even worse if you've never done it yourself to see how easy it is to do the wrong thing that causes one to look amateurish.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      What is your solution? Should we just close our eyes to the threat?
      - dylan604 5y ago
        >What is your solution? Did I just get a promotion to CAS[0]? Time to update my CV. I feel special. Time for me to start accepting bribes. It's sport. It's humans. There is no solve. People want to do it, they will find a way to do it. There are other people that will take advantage. To the point that those in charge of $sportingEvent (FIFA, Olympics, Cycling) all "fall victim". > Should we just close our eyes to the threat? Only if you want to miss the entertainment. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport
        wolverine876 5y ago
        > It's sport. It's humans. There is no solve. People say that about a lot of things, but we humans have moved out of caves, created science, machines, governments, freedom, etc etc. We can do something about our condition.
        dylan604 5y ago
        Yes, we also have religion. Some would view that as big of a vice as gambling etc. Not sure your point is carrying much weight with me.
- MengerSponge 5y ago
  You sure about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli
  - sien 5y ago
    That's not the Champion's League. At the highest level there is so much money involved in playing the game straight that it's probably not worth it. Look at the comments here on lower levels and College sport in the US. Where people are not getting paid much then even small bribes (say $5K) can work easily. In the Premier League and what preceded it there was a betting scandal about people betting on the first thrown in of a game. FWIW drugs at the highest level soccer is quite probably a thing. Quite a number of the drug doctors from the Tour De France wound up at top European Clubs (particularly Spanish ones). Modern pressing uses heaps of running and fitness.
fullshark 5y ago
Another use case for crypto!
thehermit 5y ago
I think it’s unlikely a game that high profile would be the target of a betting scheme. Much more likely some everyday regular season games, or even specific portion of a game are manipulated. You can bet on things that are way more in your control to win if you have that kind of influence such as a single players performance over a game, one quarter/inning, one hole of golf, etc
hattmall 5y ago
Legal sports betting makes it less likely to have the game thrown. The Athlete salaries far outpace the potential gains of an individual bettor so you need bookmaker involvement but the legal books are so large that they don't won't one-sided games or any particular outcome. They are able to balance their books and make money like never before by keeping an even line. It's only when the house is constrained in their ability to balance that fixing matches make sense. Even 10 years ago my local bookmaker use to fly to Panama on big weekends with a suitcase of cash to lay off, now he just uses a few apps on his phone. Something small might get corrupted but I doubt the rate for major events would be any higher.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > Legal sports betting makes it less likely to have the game thrown. Wow, that is Orwellian. > The Athlete salaries far outpace the potential gains That's only true for a few top athletes, and ignores others (referees, coaches, etc.), and the fact that careers are short. For example, in American football, you only have to buy a kicker or long snapper, who can easily change the game (as long as it's reasonably close). NFL referees aren't even full-time employees. > you need bookmaker involvement but the legal books are so large that they don't won't one-sided games or any particular outcome After seeing all the brazen fraud and deceit in American (and other) business, costing lives, tanking the global economy, causing climate change, fixing LIBOR, pushing crypto scams, etc. etc., we should believe that bookmakers would never take that risk? They must be an especially risk-averse, honest group! Also, not all gambling is legal.
- majani 5y ago
  Referees in all the top leagues still get paid average salaries yet they are the most powerful person on the field. They are the point of failure in modern sports
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Maybe other leagues pay less, but mean NFL referee salary is about $200k. I suspect it wouldn't be cheap to pay one of them off, since getting caught risks prison time, damages, and millions in future income lost.
aidenn0 5y ago
My understanding is that college basketball is the worst team sport: 1. One player can significantly affect the outcome 2. The players are being paid peanuts 3. shaving points can be very lucrative to the fixers without actually affecting the outcome of the game. A 5 figure payout just to win a game by less than expected can look like a great deal to a college athlete
- caddemon 5y ago
  I'm not sure why betting on college sports is legal at all. I believe when MA legalized gambling they said pro sports only.
- MengerSponge 5y ago
  This has happened before: https://www.netflix.com/title/81084829 https://www.netflix.com/title/81084829 This will happen again.
dylan604 5y ago
As always, Hollywood has already shown us the results with The Last Boyscout
majani 5y ago
My conspiracy theory is that if the US ever makes the World Cup Final, it will 100% be thrown

webkike 5y ago

Matter of time? The World Series has already been thrown, it was called the black Sox scandal and as far as I know it didn’t even require sports betting to be legal

MengerSponge 5y ago
Exactly. It's happened in our lifetimes too in the NBA: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-...
asdff 5y ago
Thrown with the astros recently too. Can't believe heads didn't roll for that scandal.

philwelch 5y ago

Sports betting has been legal in Europe for a very long time and we have yet to see a UEFA Champions League thrown.

wolverine876 5y ago
That you know of. How does anyone know? Edits: Imagine the NFL learns that yesterday's NFC Championship game was fixed. What would they do? Make it public and destroy their entire enterprise? My guess is that many would hide it if they could, and the people involved certainly wouldn't want to talk about it. And imagine if they learn about it in 6 months, long after the Super Bowl. Just in terms of on-field results, how do they fix the problem? Take back the trophy from a team and city that thought they won it six months ago? Replay the game in August?
- dylan604 5y ago
  >That you know of. How does anyone know? How many of those skied shots, sliced shots, etc were bad skill or skillfully done to ensure the line was what was needed/required? It's a pandora's box to start looking at everything a professional athlete/ref/manager does through that lens. It's even worse if you've never done it yourself to see how easy it is to do the wrong thing that causes one to look amateurish.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    What is your solution? Should we just close our eyes to the threat?
    - dylan604 5y ago
      >What is your solution? Did I just get a promotion to CAS[0]? Time to update my CV. I feel special. Time for me to start accepting bribes. It's sport. It's humans. There is no solve. People want to do it, they will find a way to do it. There are other people that will take advantage. To the point that those in charge of $sportingEvent (FIFA, Olympics, Cycling) all "fall victim". > Should we just close our eyes to the threat? Only if you want to miss the entertainment. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        > It's sport. It's humans. There is no solve. People say that about a lot of things, but we humans have moved out of caves, created science, machines, governments, freedom, etc etc. We can do something about our condition.
        dylan604 5y ago
        Yes, we also have religion. Some would view that as big of a vice as gambling etc. Not sure your point is carrying much weight with me.
MengerSponge 5y ago
You sure about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli
- sien 5y ago
  That's not the Champion's League. At the highest level there is so much money involved in playing the game straight that it's probably not worth it. Look at the comments here on lower levels and College sport in the US. Where people are not getting paid much then even small bribes (say $5K) can work easily. In the Premier League and what preceded it there was a betting scandal about people betting on the first thrown in of a game. FWIW drugs at the highest level soccer is quite probably a thing. Quite a number of the drug doctors from the Tour De France wound up at top European Clubs (particularly Spanish ones). Modern pressing uses heaps of running and fitness.

fullshark 5y ago

Another use case for crypto!

thehermit 5y ago

I think it’s unlikely a game that high profile would be the target of a betting scheme. Much more likely some everyday regular season games, or even specific portion of a game are manipulated. You can bet on things that are way more in your control to win if you have that kind of influence such as a single players performance over a game, one quarter/inning, one hole of golf, etc

hattmall 5y ago

Legal sports betting makes it less likely to have the game thrown. The Athlete salaries far outpace the potential gains of an individual bettor so you need bookmaker involvement but the legal books are so large that they don't won't one-sided games or any particular outcome. They are able to balance their books and make money like never before by keeping an even line. It's only when the house is constrained in their ability to balance that fixing matches make sense. Even 10 years ago my local bookmaker use to fly to Panama on big weekends with a suitcase of cash to lay off, now he just uses a few apps on his phone. Something small might get corrupted but I doubt the rate for major events would be any higher.

wolverine876 5y ago
> Legal sports betting makes it less likely to have the game thrown. Wow, that is Orwellian. > The Athlete salaries far outpace the potential gains That's only true for a few top athletes, and ignores others (referees, coaches, etc.), and the fact that careers are short. For example, in American football, you only have to buy a kicker or long snapper, who can easily change the game (as long as it's reasonably close). NFL referees aren't even full-time employees. > you need bookmaker involvement but the legal books are so large that they don't won't one-sided games or any particular outcome After seeing all the brazen fraud and deceit in American (and other) business, costing lives, tanking the global economy, causing climate change, fixing LIBOR, pushing crypto scams, etc. etc., we should believe that bookmakers would never take that risk? They must be an especially risk-averse, honest group! Also, not all gambling is legal.
majani 5y ago
Referees in all the top leagues still get paid average salaries yet they are the most powerful person on the field. They are the point of failure in modern sports
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Maybe other leagues pay less, but mean NFL referee salary is about $200k. I suspect it wouldn't be cheap to pay one of them off, since getting caught risks prison time, damages, and millions in future income lost.

aidenn0 5y ago

My understanding is that college basketball is the worst team sport: 1. One player can significantly affect the outcome 2. The players are being paid peanuts 3. shaving points can be very lucrative to the fixers without actually affecting the outcome of the game. A 5 figure payout just to win a game by less than expected can look like a great deal to a college athlete

caddemon 5y ago
I'm not sure why betting on college sports is legal at all. I believe when MA legalized gambling they said pro sports only.
MengerSponge 5y ago
This has happened before: https://www.netflix.com/title/81084829 https://www.netflix.com/title/81084829 This will happen again.

dylan604 5y ago

As always, Hollywood has already shown us the results with The Last Boyscout

majani 5y ago

My conspiracy theory is that if the US ever makes the World Cup Final, it will 100% be thrown