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> Still, the way energy is circulating in the food chain, you need a lot more land and water for raising X calories of cattle than for the same calories of plan

> Still, the way energy is circulating in the food chain, you need a lot more land and water for raising X calories of cattle than for the same calories of plants. We need more than calories from food. As is well known, some micronutrients that we need cannot be obtained from plants alone and so a plant-based diet must be supplemented either with fish, eggs, meat or dairy, or with artificial supplements. Which means a) meat, or at least animal food products, is not a luxury, rather it's a necessity and b) for everyone on the entire Earth to go vegan we must make sure that everyone on Earth can take at the very least B12 supplements, and probably supplements for other nutrients also. I have not seen any study of the costs of supplementing everyone at a planetary level with B12 and whatever other micronutrients are missing from a vegan diet.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
I'm not vegan, so I never had a trouble with b12. As a vegetarian though, I do find that the omega 3/6 balance is harder to get right than when I ate meat. On the other hand, most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients because the average western diet is terrible, meat or not. All in all, I think we have to put it in the context of trying to be vegetarian in a society that is optimized for meat eaters. It we go more plant base, I think there are plenty of solutions that will suddenly become more common, such as yeast, algae, etc. Currently, it's logistically less convenient, and often way less tasty than just eat cheese or eggs for me. But that's because we made it that way: - it's available everywhere - the economy is based on it - we are used to the taste, and our flora has adapted to it It doesn't mean it can't go fine if we organize for it.
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  > On the other hand, most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients because the average western diet is terrible, meat or not. "Key nutrients"? And "heavy" deficiencies? Are you sure? This is the first time I hear this. Can you explain? Which key nutrients are those? What kind of diets "most meat eaters" you know have that causes deficiency in those key nutrients? Thank you in advance for the reply and sorry for sounding incrdulous, but really that's the first time I hear that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    My doctor told me years ago magnesium is one of the most common deficiency, no matter the diet. The second would be d vitamin, but that's linked to sun exposure, not diet.
    - cheese_goddess 5y ago
      Right, so you say that deficiencies in magnesium and vitamin D can happen regardless of diet, if I understand correctly. So which are the key nutrients that you say most meat eaters you know are heavily deficient in because of their diet?
      - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
        I said the average western diet. Veggie or not. I did not imply causation between meet consumption and deficiencies, but rather pointed out than eating meat didn't save people from them.
        cheese_goddess 5y ago
        So you're saying that eating meat doesn't stop people from being deficient in "key nutrients"? I understand that. What I don't understand is that you said that "most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients". If that's true then most of the meat eaters you know should be severely sick, disabled, in hospitals, etc. Is that the case, or were you maybe exaggerating? I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

I'm not vegan, so I never had a trouble with b12. As a vegetarian though, I do find that the omega 3/6 balance is harder to get right than when I ate meat. On the other hand, most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients because the average western diet is terrible, meat or not. All in all, I think we have to put it in the context of trying to be vegetarian in a society that is optimized for meat eaters. It we go more plant base, I think there are plenty of solutions that will suddenly become more common, such as yeast, algae, etc. Currently, it's logistically less convenient, and often way less tasty than just eat cheese or eggs for me. But that's because we made it that way: - it's available everywhere - the economy is based on it - we are used to the taste, and our flora has adapted to it It doesn't mean it can't go fine if we organize for it.

cheese_goddess 5y ago
> On the other hand, most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients because the average western diet is terrible, meat or not. "Key nutrients"? And "heavy" deficiencies? Are you sure? This is the first time I hear this. Can you explain? Which key nutrients are those? What kind of diets "most meat eaters" you know have that causes deficiency in those key nutrients? Thank you in advance for the reply and sorry for sounding incrdulous, but really that's the first time I hear that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  My doctor told me years ago magnesium is one of the most common deficiency, no matter the diet. The second would be d vitamin, but that's linked to sun exposure, not diet.
  - cheese_goddess 5y ago
    Right, so you say that deficiencies in magnesium and vitamin D can happen regardless of diet, if I understand correctly. So which are the key nutrients that you say most meat eaters you know are heavily deficient in because of their diet?
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
      I said the average western diet. Veggie or not. I did not imply causation between meet consumption and deficiencies, but rather pointed out than eating meat didn't save people from them.
      - cheese_goddess 5y ago
        So you're saying that eating meat doesn't stop people from being deficient in "key nutrients"? I understand that. What I don't understand is that you said that "most meat eaters I know have heavy deficient in many key nutrients". If that's true then most of the meat eaters you know should be severely sick, disabled, in hospitals, etc. Is that the case, or were you maybe exaggerating? I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say.