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This is simply impossible. There is energy loss at every stage. Burning fuel to create electricity is not 100% Transfering that energy over power lines has lo

This is simply impossible. There is energy loss at every stage. Burning fuel to create electricity is not 100% Transfering that energy over power lines has loss Converting that energy from high voltage to house hold voltage has loss. Charging a battery has loss Discharging a battery has loss Converting electric energy into a motor has loss. Running a combustion engine in a car has less loss than the above. If that energy comes from wind, solar, or even nuclear; then even with that loss you are releasing less CO2. However if you are burning oil in both places, then the compounding energy losses matter a lot. > Read the Tesla impact report. Reading an electric car companies statement and taking that as absolute truth is the same as reading about "clean oil".

acdha 5y ago
Burning fuel hits the Carnot limit around 35%, though, so you have a hefty margin for that transmission loss, and don't forget the entire global shipping system which brings that fuel to you. The other big factor to consider is the much greater complexity: internal combustion engines are complicated. All of those parts have a cost to build, assemble, and maintain — one of the biggest reasons why EVs end up cheaper to own is simply that you're not taking on all of that.
- georgyo 5y ago
  > don't forget the entire global shipping system which brings that fuel to you. You have missed my point entirely. If your local electric generation is the same source as your car. You have not saved anything. To reiterate again, if your local electric generation is green then things are going to be better for the environment. But if your local power plant is coal then an electric car is worse. Your car is indirectly burning coal to move. And the delivery and storage of that coal generated electric has lots of losses on the journey.
  - acdha 5y ago
    It's still not that simple. Internal-combustion engines are extremely inefficient (and pollute more since they're harder to monitor and not reliably professionally maintained) and there's a lot more waste involved at every point of that process. You also have factors like regenerative braking to further complicate the comparison. The other big factor to think about is the relative emissions profile of the shipping system which brings that fuel to you specifically where you live. It's true electric power has transmissions loses but those very considerably as a function of distance and it doesn't require the same power to be shipped multiple times. Shipping oil in a tanker with high-pollution marine Diesel engines is going to be different than piping it to a refinery or having a modern freight train haul either coal or oil, refineries aren't exactly low-pollution, and gas also requires a considerable amount of pollution shipping it to thousands of fuel stations (with electric power, at least a lot of the environmental impact is focused in one location).
natch 5y ago
> Reading an electric car companies statement and taking that as absolute truth But you’re willing to take oil industry propaganda as absolute truth and that’s ok, right?

acdha 5y ago

Burning fuel hits the Carnot limit around 35%, though, so you have a hefty margin for that transmission loss, and don't forget the entire global shipping system which brings that fuel to you. The other big factor to consider is the much greater complexity: internal combustion engines are complicated. All of those parts have a cost to build, assemble, and maintain — one of the biggest reasons why EVs end up cheaper to own is simply that you're not taking on all of that.

georgyo 5y ago
> don't forget the entire global shipping system which brings that fuel to you. You have missed my point entirely. If your local electric generation is the same source as your car. You have not saved anything. To reiterate again, if your local electric generation is green then things are going to be better for the environment. But if your local power plant is coal then an electric car is worse. Your car is indirectly burning coal to move. And the delivery and storage of that coal generated electric has lots of losses on the journey.
- acdha 5y ago
  It's still not that simple. Internal-combustion engines are extremely inefficient (and pollute more since they're harder to monitor and not reliably professionally maintained) and there's a lot more waste involved at every point of that process. You also have factors like regenerative braking to further complicate the comparison. The other big factor to think about is the relative emissions profile of the shipping system which brings that fuel to you specifically where you live. It's true electric power has transmissions loses but those very considerably as a function of distance and it doesn't require the same power to be shipped multiple times. Shipping oil in a tanker with high-pollution marine Diesel engines is going to be different than piping it to a refinery or having a modern freight train haul either coal or oil, refineries aren't exactly low-pollution, and gas also requires a considerable amount of pollution shipping it to thousands of fuel stations (with electric power, at least a lot of the environmental impact is focused in one location).

natch 5y ago

> Reading an electric car companies statement and taking that as absolute truth But you’re willing to take oil industry propaganda as absolute truth and that’s ok, right?