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When everyone needs a car to get to work at the same time and you can't be sure thst you will get one when you request it - how can you plan your trip to work o

When everyone needs a car to get to work at the same time and you can't be sure thst you will get one when you request it - how can you plan your trip to work or anywhere, if getting a car is random?

Ma8ee 5y ago
You prebook your car in advance. This is certainly not a hard problem.
- asoneth 5y ago
  I do not see how that solves the general problem. Either there are as many cars available for prebooking as their are rush-hour commuters who want them or we have to ration the supply using shortages and/or surge pricing. In the former case we haven't appreciably decreased the number of cars. In the latter case I anticipate that anyone who can afford to do so will continue to own a private vehicle to ensure they can get to work on time, so we also haven't appreciably decreased the number of cars.
  - Ma8ee 5y ago
    It solves the problem that you can plan your trip. The complaint was that you couldn’t plan your trip. Not everyone go to work at the same time, so every car will be available for several trips. And what would be wrong with prices that varies with demand? Isn’t that how market economy is supposed to work? It will still be cheaper than owning your own car.
    - asoneth 5y ago
      It is theoretically possible, sure. I'm trying to imagine a nontrivial number of people who currently own a private vehicle selling that vehicle to rely on prebooking both of their daily commuting trips with a flexibly-priced mode of transportation to save money. As a datapoint, I know many people who regularly take car services like Uber, but I don't know of anyone who actually sold their car to rely exclusively on a car service to commute. Perhaps if driverless cars halve the price of car service it might start to happen? I'm not saying it is not theoretically possible that driverless cars will reduce car ownership, I am saying that I am skeptical of the weak arguments and minimal evidence provided thus far for such a claim.
      - Ma8ee 5y ago
        There’s not much evidence in either direction before they are a reality.
- aurizon 5y ago
  pre-booked cars allow an app to arrange a de-facto floating car pool. There will be a shared fee that will depend on the length of the trip optimized segments. Ride alone types will pay more.
onion2k 5y ago
When everyone needs a car to get to work at the same time They don't.
- Steltek 5y ago
  You're going to have to expand your pithy take there. Rush hour still exists. Bumper to bumper traffic still exists. There's an awful lot of people who apparently need a lot of cars all at the same time.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    All those people, or more accurately the companies that employ them, choose to have the same operating hours, the same inflexible time policies, and the same insistence on going to a physical location to do work. Some of them won't have a choice of course - you can't really stack shelves or manufacture bits of metal remotely. For many of the rest travelling, commuting, and working in an office is a choice. It is not a need. The fact rush hour traffic exist shows that businesses are inflexible and unwilling to trust their workers; it doesn't show a daily commute is a requirement.
- epicide 5y ago
  They don't need to and they don't all need to get there at the same time, but rush hour exists. Even if there would be cars available even during rush hour, people will expect rush hour to have less availability and will err on the side of not getting fired.
colinmhayes 5y ago
Most people drive to work alone. If everyone is using a rideshare app lots of those people will be using the carpool feature. If every car has 4 people in it you only need a quarter of the cars.
- yason 5y ago
  The only thing worse than a 45 minutes long commute trip twice a day alone in the car is a bit longer commute trip twice a day with other people.
dghlsakjg 5y ago
Maybe we could come up with some sort of 'Metacar' system where people walk, bike, or take a short ride to a central pickup point and then all ride in a 'Metacar' with passengers headed in the same general direction. I wonder if the economics work out so that it would be affordable to bore tunnels under cities for these 'Metacars'. That would make it much easier to have them be driverless, and they could proceed directly towards their destination at higher speed. Even if that isn't possible, we could designate some lanes on bigger roads as 'Metacar' lanes so that they can move efficiently even in rush hour. In all seriousness: I just realized that I haven't had a job in 5 years that required me to commute in a car. COVID helped, but the other half of it was working in places that take density and non-car transit seriously. I know not everyone can do that.
- wyre 5y ago
  Your ‘Metacar’ system is literally describing public transit systems that already exist.

When everyone needs a car to get to work at the same time and you can't be sure thst you will get one when you request it - how can you plan your trip to work or anywhere, if getting a car is random?

Ma8ee 5y ago

You prebook your car in advance. This is certainly not a hard problem.

asoneth 5y ago
I do not see how that solves the general problem. Either there are as many cars available for prebooking as their are rush-hour commuters who want them or we have to ration the supply using shortages and/or surge pricing. In the former case we haven't appreciably decreased the number of cars. In the latter case I anticipate that anyone who can afford to do so will continue to own a private vehicle to ensure they can get to work on time, so we also haven't appreciably decreased the number of cars.
- Ma8ee 5y ago
  It solves the problem that you can plan your trip. The complaint was that you couldn’t plan your trip. Not everyone go to work at the same time, so every car will be available for several trips. And what would be wrong with prices that varies with demand? Isn’t that how market economy is supposed to work? It will still be cheaper than owning your own car.
  - asoneth 5y ago
    It is theoretically possible, sure. I'm trying to imagine a nontrivial number of people who currently own a private vehicle selling that vehicle to rely on prebooking both of their daily commuting trips with a flexibly-priced mode of transportation to save money. As a datapoint, I know many people who regularly take car services like Uber, but I don't know of anyone who actually sold their car to rely exclusively on a car service to commute. Perhaps if driverless cars halve the price of car service it might start to happen? I'm not saying it is not theoretically possible that driverless cars will reduce car ownership, I am saying that I am skeptical of the weak arguments and minimal evidence provided thus far for such a claim.
    - Ma8ee 5y ago
      There’s not much evidence in either direction before they are a reality.
aurizon 5y ago
pre-booked cars allow an app to arrange a de-facto floating car pool. There will be a shared fee that will depend on the length of the trip optimized segments. Ride alone types will pay more.

onion2k 5y ago

When everyone needs a car to get to work at the same time They don't.

Steltek 5y ago
You're going to have to expand your pithy take there. Rush hour still exists. Bumper to bumper traffic still exists. There's an awful lot of people who apparently need a lot of cars all at the same time.
- onion2k 5y ago
  All those people, or more accurately the companies that employ them, choose to have the same operating hours, the same inflexible time policies, and the same insistence on going to a physical location to do work. Some of them won't have a choice of course - you can't really stack shelves or manufacture bits of metal remotely. For many of the rest travelling, commuting, and working in an office is a choice. It is not a need. The fact rush hour traffic exist shows that businesses are inflexible and unwilling to trust their workers; it doesn't show a daily commute is a requirement.
epicide 5y ago
They don't need to and they don't all need to get there at the same time, but rush hour exists. Even if there would be cars available even during rush hour, people will expect rush hour to have less availability and will err on the side of not getting fired.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Most people drive to work alone. If everyone is using a rideshare app lots of those people will be using the carpool feature. If every car has 4 people in it you only need a quarter of the cars.

yason 5y ago
The only thing worse than a 45 minutes long commute trip twice a day alone in the car is a bit longer commute trip twice a day with other people.

dghlsakjg 5y ago

Maybe we could come up with some sort of 'Metacar' system where people walk, bike, or take a short ride to a central pickup point and then all ride in a 'Metacar' with passengers headed in the same general direction. I wonder if the economics work out so that it would be affordable to bore tunnels under cities for these 'Metacars'. That would make it much easier to have them be driverless, and they could proceed directly towards their destination at higher speed. Even if that isn't possible, we could designate some lanes on bigger roads as 'Metacar' lanes so that they can move efficiently even in rush hour. In all seriousness: I just realized that I haven't had a job in 5 years that required me to commute in a car. COVID helped, but the other half of it was working in places that take density and non-car transit seriously. I know not everyone can do that.

wyre 5y ago
Your ‘Metacar’ system is literally describing public transit systems that already exist.