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I think it's important to keep an archive of unaltered content. But, given that much of this content is for entertainment, curation is important. For example,

I think it's important to keep an archive of unaltered content. But, given that much of this content is for entertainment, curation is important. For example, when Disney Plus was new, I decided to watch Peter Pan with my kids. One was 4, and one wasn't even two. Curiously, I couldn't find Peter Pan in the "kids" mode, so I switched back to the adult mode and put it on. There was a very subtle warning about "outdated cultural references," but I didn't think much of it as I've seen Peter Pan a few times. The Disney Plus version reintroduced "What Made the Red Man Red?", an extremely racist musical bit. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F) In the past, this song was cut from the VHS and DVD version. (And I have vague memories of wondering why the lost boys returned to their tree dressed as Indians.) I had no idea that this was put back in the movie. My jaw dropped when the song came on. I was in so much shock that I didn't think to skip the scene. Now, I have no problem preserving the uncut film, and making it generally available! But I also would prefer to show my young children the cut version of the film, and only show them racist material when they're old enough to understand why it's wrong. (After all, those who forget history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.)

HideousKojima 5y ago
>In the past, this song was cut from the VHS and DVD version. Having grown up with Peter Pan on VHS I can assure you it was not cut from the US VHS release (at least not the ones in the white plastic clamshell cases that Disney VHS releases in the 80's/90's came in).
nix23 5y ago
>the lost boys returned to their tree dressed as Indians. Watch your mouth young man! It's "dressed as native Americans".
- krastanov 5y ago
  Maybe you are sarcastic or maybe you are trying to make a point in a light-hearted way, but while the word has plenty of history, "American Indian" is not a term particularly frowned upon. The museum in DC is called that way, and plenty of tribes prefer to have ownership over the term instead of it being unilaterally changed. I personally use the two interchangeably (which would probably make *someone* uncomfortable because of some connotation, and I will just be respectful and talk with that person).
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Maybe you are sarcastic or maybe you are trying to make a point in a light-hearted way Both to be honest. >"American Indian" is not a term particularly frowned upon. Are you saying that or have you asked a native American?..because that's the whole point i try to make.
    - krastanov 5y ago
      Yes, that is the whole point (and it is why I edited to add the parenthetical at the end). My claim was based on books and lectures on the experience of Native Americans. If a person prefers to be called (or their people called) a certain way, of course I would respect their preference.
    - rendall 5y ago
      I was asked by an Indian to use the term Indian: "I'm not a 'Native American'. I'm an Indian!" Then again, a friend of mine who's Apache asked me to use the term "Native American": "The people who want to be called Indian are ignorant people from the reservation." Which, wow. Seemed kinda presumptuous to me, but whatevs. Apparently, some Indians find "Native American" offensive, and some Native Americans find "Indian" offensive. Just ask directly, is your best bet.
      - nix23 5y ago
        Not sure if i can believe that story...
        parineum 5y ago
        Well, if it's a more believable story to you, I've driven by many reservations that use either "native american", "american indian" or "sioux (or any specific name) nation" on the "now entering" signs. There's no consensus term and, as op said, your best bet is not to make assumptions and ask. Rational people aren't offended if you ask them how to be respectful.
        rendall 5y ago
- Cycl0ps 5y ago
  https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ
  - krastanov 5y ago
    This is a great reference, but you might need to give some context if you do not want knee-jerk downvotes. This video is from CGP Grey's educational channel and it is an essay/study on different people's (in particular Native Americans) views of the name "American Indian".
    - Cycl0ps 5y ago
      Fair enough. I was on my phone when I posted that and I agree that I could have provided a bit more context than a random Youtube link. Thanks for filling in the details for people
aidenn0 5y ago
I have the Peter Pan DVD, and it definitely has that song. I wonder if there are regional differences there.
NDizzle 5y ago
- krastanov 5y ago
  This is not a particularly productive way to bring on a fruitful conversation. What is the point of just trying to offend or attest your emotional superiority?
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    Presumably it's to make the sorts of people who push for censorship feel embarrassed/ashamed of themselves so they will stop pushing for censorship so much
    - krastanov 5y ago
      I personally think calling this censorship is cheapening the word and making it easier for real censorship to happen. If anything, we should make sure that everyone actually knows that mass-media has always been edited to fit the zeitgeist and that it is important to always be curious what the archival footage shows. Which brings me to my other nitpick: BBC are *not* censoring their archives as the title is suggesting, they are *editing* their current broadcast, which has been happening for centuries when old media is being reused.
      - brigandish 5y ago
        > calling this censorship is cheapening the word and making it easier for real censorship to happen It seems like this kind of thing goes hand in hand with real censorship. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866
        krastanov 5y ago
        I agree, discussing why these two are different would have been a much more interesting and fruitful talk to have. Subverting the main message of a piece of art is chilling and terrifying and it is what we should be up in arms about. Instead we are talking about the cutting out of an inconsequential racist joke. There is certainly a spectrum between these two extremes.
donatj 5y ago
That’s interesting that they provide it in its original form given the expansive censorship on the Disney+ platform as a whole.
grujicd 5y ago
I watched that scene on yt, read the lyrics and even wiki page about that song. I can't understand why it's considered "extremely racist". It looks even cute. However I'm from Eastern Europe and probably miss some subtler context here. Or is this a case of overcorrection in US society? Excessive political correctness for past wrongdoings? It's also quite funny when I saw that "black magic" is now considered racist. Guess what? It's also called "black magic" in Serbia since centuries ago, when noone here ever saw non-white man. Black in this context symbolizes darkness, and fear we feel in the dark. Not a skin color. Btw. "roleplaying" cowboys and indians was a pupular childhood game in 80-ties here. Although Indians (I'm using this term since it's still the only one used around here) were typically portraited as bad guys in movies, they were as popular as cowboys in our games and many children wanted to be like them.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  It's similar overcompensating logic as people use to now rename git branches from 'master' to 'main' or whatever -- even though the concept of master was never anything about, or analogous to, slavery (i.e. there are no 'slave' branches -- it's just not the mental model, at all). Keep in mind that it's ostensibly smart people doing this. Surprisingly (but maybe I missed a memo), the Serial Peripheral Interface (SPI), is in fact defined in terms of master and slave devices; but, I'm not aware of any movements to redefine it. The embedded systems world has not (yet) been cleansed and re-educated. It's a new Puritan era.
  - trasz 5y ago
    "Main" _is_ a better name for that branch though. It's shorter and more intuitive.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > "Main" _is_ a better name for that branch though. It's shorter and more intuitive. That's just making stuff up. IIRC, "master branch" comes from "master copy," which has long established usage and connotations of "thing you make copies from." My educated guess is that "master" in this case ultimately comes from the idea of someone who "mastered" a craft and created an item that less skilled workers would then copy to mass produce. "Main" lacks those connotations, which actually makes it more confusing. If you want to use a different branch name, fine, but please don't make up BS justifications for doing so. Honestly, if you're looking for an alternative that's about as intuitive as "master," "root" is probably a better choice than "main" (at least given the branching system I've always used).
aaron695 5y ago
xdennis 5y ago
You're pearl clutching. The song does sound insensitive, but kids aren't going to start massacring Indians after hearing the song. Take it as an opportunity to learn and raise antifragile kids.

HideousKojima 5y ago

>In the past, this song was cut from the VHS and DVD version. Having grown up with Peter Pan on VHS I can assure you it was not cut from the US VHS release (at least not the ones in the white plastic clamshell cases that Disney VHS releases in the 80's/90's came in).

nix23 5y ago

>the lost boys returned to their tree dressed as Indians. Watch your mouth young man! It's "dressed as native Americans".

krastanov 5y ago
Maybe you are sarcastic or maybe you are trying to make a point in a light-hearted way, but while the word has plenty of history, "American Indian" is not a term particularly frowned upon. The museum in DC is called that way, and plenty of tribes prefer to have ownership over the term instead of it being unilaterally changed. I personally use the two interchangeably (which would probably make *someone* uncomfortable because of some connotation, and I will just be respectful and talk with that person).
- nix23 5y ago
  >Maybe you are sarcastic or maybe you are trying to make a point in a light-hearted way Both to be honest. >"American Indian" is not a term particularly frowned upon. Are you saying that or have you asked a native American?..because that's the whole point i try to make.
  - krastanov 5y ago
    Yes, that is the whole point (and it is why I edited to add the parenthetical at the end). My claim was based on books and lectures on the experience of Native Americans. If a person prefers to be called (or their people called) a certain way, of course I would respect their preference.
  - rendall 5y ago
    I was asked by an Indian to use the term Indian: "I'm not a 'Native American'. I'm an Indian!" Then again, a friend of mine who's Apache asked me to use the term "Native American": "The people who want to be called Indian are ignorant people from the reservation." Which, wow. Seemed kinda presumptuous to me, but whatevs. Apparently, some Indians find "Native American" offensive, and some Native Americans find "Indian" offensive. Just ask directly, is your best bet.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Not sure if i can believe that story...
      - parineum 5y ago
        Well, if it's a more believable story to you, I've driven by many reservations that use either "native american", "american indian" or "sioux (or any specific name) nation" on the "now entering" signs. There's no consensus term and, as op said, your best bet is not to make assumptions and ask. Rational people aren't offended if you ask them how to be respectful.
      - rendall 5y ago
Cycl0ps 5y ago
https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ
- krastanov 5y ago
  This is a great reference, but you might need to give some context if you do not want knee-jerk downvotes. This video is from CGP Grey's educational channel and it is an essay/study on different people's (in particular Native Americans) views of the name "American Indian".
  - Cycl0ps 5y ago
    Fair enough. I was on my phone when I posted that and I agree that I could have provided a bit more context than a random Youtube link. Thanks for filling in the details for people

aidenn0 5y ago

I have the Peter Pan DVD, and it definitely has that song. I wonder if there are regional differences there.

NDizzle 5y ago

krastanov 5y ago
This is not a particularly productive way to bring on a fruitful conversation. What is the point of just trying to offend or attest your emotional superiority?
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  Presumably it's to make the sorts of people who push for censorship feel embarrassed/ashamed of themselves so they will stop pushing for censorship so much
  - krastanov 5y ago
    I personally think calling this censorship is cheapening the word and making it easier for real censorship to happen. If anything, we should make sure that everyone actually knows that mass-media has always been edited to fit the zeitgeist and that it is important to always be curious what the archival footage shows. Which brings me to my other nitpick: BBC are *not* censoring their archives as the title is suggesting, they are *editing* their current broadcast, which has been happening for centuries when old media is being reused.
    - brigandish 5y ago
      > calling this censorship is cheapening the word and making it easier for real censorship to happen It seems like this kind of thing goes hand in hand with real censorship. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866
      - krastanov 5y ago
        I agree, discussing why these two are different would have been a much more interesting and fruitful talk to have. Subverting the main message of a piece of art is chilling and terrifying and it is what we should be up in arms about. Instead we are talking about the cutting out of an inconsequential racist joke. There is certainly a spectrum between these two extremes.

donatj 5y ago

That’s interesting that they provide it in its original form given the expansive censorship on the Disney+ platform as a whole.

grujicd 5y ago

I watched that scene on yt, read the lyrics and even wiki page about that song. I can't understand why it's considered "extremely racist". It looks even cute. However I'm from Eastern Europe and probably miss some subtler context here. Or is this a case of overcorrection in US society? Excessive political correctness for past wrongdoings? It's also quite funny when I saw that "black magic" is now considered racist. Guess what? It's also called "black magic" in Serbia since centuries ago, when noone here ever saw non-white man. Black in this context symbolizes darkness, and fear we feel in the dark. Not a skin color. Btw. "roleplaying" cowboys and indians was a pupular childhood game in 80-ties here. Although Indians (I'm using this term since it's still the only one used around here) were typically portraited as bad guys in movies, they were as popular as cowboys in our games and many children wanted to be like them.

kerneloftruth 5y ago
It's similar overcompensating logic as people use to now rename git branches from 'master' to 'main' or whatever -- even though the concept of master was never anything about, or analogous to, slavery (i.e. there are no 'slave' branches -- it's just not the mental model, at all). Keep in mind that it's ostensibly smart people doing this. Surprisingly (but maybe I missed a memo), the Serial Peripheral Interface (SPI), is in fact defined in terms of master and slave devices; but, I'm not aware of any movements to redefine it. The embedded systems world has not (yet) been cleansed and re-educated. It's a new Puritan era.
- trasz 5y ago
  "Main" _is_ a better name for that branch though. It's shorter and more intuitive.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > "Main" _is_ a better name for that branch though. It's shorter and more intuitive. That's just making stuff up. IIRC, "master branch" comes from "master copy," which has long established usage and connotations of "thing you make copies from." My educated guess is that "master" in this case ultimately comes from the idea of someone who "mastered" a craft and created an item that less skilled workers would then copy to mass produce. "Main" lacks those connotations, which actually makes it more confusing. If you want to use a different branch name, fine, but please don't make up BS justifications for doing so. Honestly, if you're looking for an alternative that's about as intuitive as "master," "root" is probably a better choice than "main" (at least given the branching system I've always used).

aaron695 5y ago

xdennis 5y ago

You're pearl clutching. The song does sound insensitive, but kids aren't going to start massacring Indians after hearing the song. Take it as an opportunity to learn and raise antifragile kids.