5 ms·

Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"

stragies 5y ago
Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...
- dpark 5y ago
  Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it. I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn’t trust water quality measurements coming out of my dishwasher anyway. It’s measuring hot water which isn’t what you should be drinking, and I’d give it a 99% chance that the person who crammed those sensors in didn’t do a good job of insulating them from the heat, vibration, etc.
  - stragies 5y ago
    The point of such remote-scheduling is in my view, is that e.g. when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone, with Buttons for "Go Now", and one for "Tonight, one hour after last movement detection". And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and (since it's super-easy with HA) log/graph it over time. Plus detergent and salt levels are nice to know for shopping-list-planning.
    - dpark 5y ago
      > when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone But why? If I haven’t run it in three days, then I don’t need it to run. The only way this might be useful for me would be if HA could magically realize the dishwasher is full and I forgot to run it, but it’s not going to be able to do that. It can’t tell the difference been “I forgot” and “I don’t want it to run yet” and I absolutely do not want HA sending me a message every time I leave asking if I meant to run the dishwasher. > And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. Maybe some dishwashers do have internal heaters to reheat the water? Mine definitely is connected to the hot water supply, though. I am not aware of it containing an internal heater. Definitely some dishwashers have a heating element for drying (mine does not) but I don’t think they use those elements for heating the water. Also, does your clothes washing machine actually heat water? That seems pointless when you already have a device intended to provide hot water to the whole house. Mine connects to the hot and cold lines. I’d be annoyed if I bought a washing machine and then realized it had a heater inside instead of using the hot water supply. The extra complexity and failure modes and wasted time to heat the water do not seem to provide any value. > At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and (since it's super-easy with HA) log/graph it over time. Plus detergent and salt levels are nice to know for shopping-list-planning. Personally I don’t want “nice to haves” that requires my devices to be internet connected and have apps etc. The value is way too low for the complexity it adds. I especially don’t trust these device manufacturers to keep these systems running long term. If you find value, though, I’m not saying you shouldn’t be able to buy one of those smart dishwashers.
      - stragies 5y ago
        I don't buy devices, if they need to be "on-the-internet" to function. But If I have the choice between a dumb one, and one with the same mechanics, but also a simple SoC with a bunch of sensors and relays connected, that I can talk to with "non-vendor-products" with only a small price difference, THEN I will leave the dumb one on the shelf, and take home the one, that I can actually integrate WELL into my workflows.
        5y ago
Victerius 5y ago
I am rabid over futuristic/techno/sci-fi stuff, but I don't think turning everything into a mini computer is the right way forward. By all means, turn our home PCs into supercomputers and our televisions into 3D hologram projectors, but let "dumb" but reliable goods persist. Next they'll start making smart cissors, smart drinking glasses, smart pens...
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30148931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30148931
fsflover 5y ago
Why not to have software on a dishwasher, if it does not misbehave and can be switched off if you wish?
radmuzom 5y ago
He foresaw way back in the 80-90s that corporations are going to put software on their dishwasher anyway irrespective of what people want. If his idealistic goals were to be realized by now, at least they would have full control over it.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Sure, but we're talking single-digit percentages of people who ever interface with this stuff directly. We've had full(ish) control over desktop computer operating systems for decades and 2% of people use desktop linux. Google built ChromeOS on linux and started selling laptops loaded with their proprietary services, and it eclipsed desktop linux in a couple years. Unfortunately if his goals came to fruition the vast majority of people would be in the same place. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it seems like free software is only a small piece of it.

stragies 5y ago

Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...

dpark 5y ago
Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it. I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn’t trust water quality measurements coming out of my dishwasher anyway. It’s measuring hot water which isn’t what you should be drinking, and I’d give it a 99% chance that the person who crammed those sensors in didn’t do a good job of insulating them from the heat, vibration, etc.
- stragies 5y ago
  The point of such remote-scheduling is in my view, is that e.g. when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone, with Buttons for "Go Now", and one for "Tonight, one hour after last movement detection". And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and (since it's super-easy with HA) log/graph it over time. Plus detergent and salt levels are nice to know for shopping-list-planning.
  - dpark 5y ago
    > when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone But why? If I haven’t run it in three days, then I don’t need it to run. The only way this might be useful for me would be if HA could magically realize the dishwasher is full and I forgot to run it, but it’s not going to be able to do that. It can’t tell the difference been “I forgot” and “I don’t want it to run yet” and I absolutely do not want HA sending me a message every time I leave asking if I meant to run the dishwasher. > And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. Maybe some dishwashers do have internal heaters to reheat the water? Mine definitely is connected to the hot water supply, though. I am not aware of it containing an internal heater. Definitely some dishwashers have a heating element for drying (mine does not) but I don’t think they use those elements for heating the water. Also, does your clothes washing machine actually heat water? That seems pointless when you already have a device intended to provide hot water to the whole house. Mine connects to the hot and cold lines. I’d be annoyed if I bought a washing machine and then realized it had a heater inside instead of using the hot water supply. The extra complexity and failure modes and wasted time to heat the water do not seem to provide any value. > At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and (since it's super-easy with HA) log/graph it over time. Plus detergent and salt levels are nice to know for shopping-list-planning. Personally I don’t want “nice to haves” that requires my devices to be internet connected and have apps etc. The value is way too low for the complexity it adds. I especially don’t trust these device manufacturers to keep these systems running long term. If you find value, though, I’m not saying you shouldn’t be able to buy one of those smart dishwashers.
    - stragies 5y ago
      I don't buy devices, if they need to be "on-the-internet" to function. But If I have the choice between a dumb one, and one with the same mechanics, but also a simple SoC with a bunch of sensors and relays connected, that I can talk to with "non-vendor-products" with only a small price difference, THEN I will leave the dumb one on the shelf, and take home the one, that I can actually integrate WELL into my workflows.
      - 5y ago

Victerius 5y ago

I am rabid over futuristic/techno/sci-fi stuff, but I don't think turning everything into a mini computer is the right way forward. By all means, turn our home PCs into supercomputers and our televisions into 3D hologram projectors, but let "dumb" but reliable goods persist. Next they'll start making smart cissors, smart drinking glasses, smart pens...

fsflover 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30148931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30148931

fsflover 5y ago

Why not to have software on a dishwasher, if it does not misbehave and can be switched off if you wish?

radmuzom 5y ago

He foresaw way back in the 80-90s that corporations are going to put software on their dishwasher anyway irrespective of what people want. If his idealistic goals were to be realized by now, at least they would have full control over it.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Sure, but we're talking single-digit percentages of people who ever interface with this stuff directly. We've had full(ish) control over desktop computer operating systems for decades and 2% of people use desktop linux. Google built ChromeOS on linux and started selling laptops loaded with their proprietary services, and it eclipsed desktop linux in a couple years. Unfortunately if his goals came to fruition the vast majority of people would be in the same place. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it seems like free software is only a small piece of it.