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I know this is meant to be a short article, but there are several points that I think are more complicated in reality. > The promise of a relaxed, comfortable
by jkingsbery 5y ago
I know this is meant to be a short article, but there are several points that I think are more complicated in reality.
> The promise of a relaxed, comfortable commute to work could even make some people move farther away from their workplaces and accelerate suburban sprawl trends.
At least where I live (suburbs outside of NY), more self-driving cars will not likely lead to more people commuting from farther away. The road capacity is already maxed out. Everyone I know either takes mass transit. In most other cities where I have coworkers, the roads were not built for the number of commuters, and again whether it's comfortable or not, people would rather not be commuting an hour and a half by car each way. This is especially true now in a world where we've all gotten used to a commute of walking down the hallway.
> it’s unlikely to evolve that way on its own.
They don't really explain why. They mention the idea of having shared fleets of cars, which would greatly reduce the cost of ownership and which become more plausible when cars are driverless. It seems like most people would have sufficient financial incentives (saving hundreds of dollars per month) to move in that direction.
The article also doesn't explore the downstream impact from moving to shared fleets, and how great that would be for the environment. We dedicate a huge amount of resources, both real estate and financial, just to parking. If we have fewer total cars in existence, we would have less need for parking. There's also environmental impact of battery production [1], and as we move to electric vehicles having fewer total cars on the road will mean we need to produce fewer batteries, creating fewer mines for metals needed and using up less water which is needed by mining processes.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dnN82DsQ2k&t=814s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dnN82DsQ2k&t=814s
- Xylakant 5y ago> The article also doesn't explore the downstream impact from moving to shared fleets, and how great that would be for the environment. I really question whether that will happen. Floating car-sharing does not seem to have affected car ownership significantly, and it provides similar benefits. People obviously still want to own their specific car.
- JamisonM 5y agoNot to derail the conversation but I really am genuinely confused about the high level of concern about cobalt and lithium mining I often see in comments on HN. I understand that it is a dirty and difficult process but the entire petroleum-based supply chain is dirty and difficult. Is there some solid research out there that indicates that the footprint of this mining practice is much worse?
- notreallyserio 5y agoIt really is the go-to gotcha for electric car opponents. I've found if you push back and point out the problems with ICE production and use they have no response.
- milkytron 5y agoIs it though? I'm generally opposed to continuing to invest so much in car centric infrastructure, and that's pretty much my gripe with EVs. They're still cars, they will further entrench our dependence on roads, which encourage sprawl, a sedentary lifestyle, yada yada yada. I could go on and on. I'm sure they're better than ICEs, at least for the nearby environmental impact they have. But they still require hugely expensive and inefficient transportation infrastructure.
- notreallyserio 5y agoYeah, most arguments against EVs that I've seen have to do with the battery (or range). I'm with you about cars in general. They're never going away, though, so we might as well make the least impactful cars that we can.
- JamisonM 5y agoI think opposing car-centric urban planning is orthogonal to ICE vs EV issue but I understand the perspective. You're not going to tear up every city in North and South America and make them better planned on a timeline that is helpful to automotive emissions so the answer is EVs plus better zoning laws, move both in the right direction at the same time.
- bagacrap 5y agomore people will definitely move farther away and commute in their personal self driving vehicles since they can get in the car at 4am and sleep through the 3 hour traffic jam. Especially because their car is electric, so like, zero emissions man.