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I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwashe
by christophilus 5y ago
I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?
- lights0123 5y agoNotifications is the big reason: because cycle times are usually just estimates, you can't just set a timer for when it'll be done.
- LegitShady 5y ago>because cycle times are usually just estimates Why is that? what diagnostics are it running to tell if it needs to run longer? I thought they ran by timers, in which case cycle times are...cycle times.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cube00 5y agoSome dish washers have water sensors that vary the cycle times depending on how dirty they observe the return water. This why they warn you not to pre-rinse your dishes because you'll fool the system into a lighter washing which won't properly clean your dishes.
- slig 5y agoNewer models can check if the water is coming out clear and waste less resources/time.
- cjrp 5y agoModern-ish ones usually have a dirty-water-sensor; I believe it works by shining light through the water on the way out of the machine to see (roughly) how dirty it is. Clean water = cycle over, dirty water = keep going!
- LegitShady 5y agoSo if the water never gets dirty it doesn't turn off? How does it judge how dirty the dishes are to tell how dirty the water should be? Seems fancy but nonsense.
- cjrp 5y agoI guess if the water is clean then it does a very quick cycle and just stops
- jstanley 5y agoIt needs to open the inlet valve until there's enough water. This will take less time if your water pressure is higher. It needs to heat until the desired temperature is achieved. This will take more time in colder weather.
- tremon 5y agoIs the completion of a dishwashing cycle a time-critical event in your home? Here, it can easily be a few hours between washing the dishes and unloading the washer (e.g. run the washer overnight, unload it the next morning).
- hughrr 5y agoIt’s not time critical until someone told you it needs to be time critical i.e the manufacturer tries to bundle shitty IoT features on every damn thing because the manufacturer next door is doing it and then piles on the marketing. No one needs an internet connected dish washer. Just give me something I don’t need to sleep with one eye open all the time.
- birdayz 5y agoa smart plug can do it for you as well. $10
- funcDropShadow 5y agoI don't understand the usefulness of notifications on my phone for a dishwasher. Either I am near my dishwasher and hear its acoustic signal that it has finished. Then I can decide to open it or empty it now or later. Or I am not near the dishwasher than I can't do anything about it. Then it is a completely unactionable information, i.e. noise. Actually, I have a Bosch/Siemens dishwasher with Wifi because it is very good dishwasher, but I've never connected it to my Wifi, because I don't want to think about advanced persistent threads infilitrating my dishwasher.
- rightbyte 5y agoYou never connected it to WiFi. I don't trust any device with radio so introducing unessecary ones seems like a bad idea.
- funcDropShadow 5y agoGood point, but I was under pressure to buy a new one, and the options were limited due to Covid-related delays. As I live in Germany were it is very hard to find an unauthenticated Wifi-network, and there is certainly not a single one in range of my home, I could accept that risk.
- aivisol 5y agoMine dumb model beeps when its done its cycle. It's a good notification for me. If I run it overnight, I don't really care at which hour it finished. Am I missing something else?
- ginko 5y agoThe timer in my dumb Siemens washing machine works quite well. I can just set it to be done in <N> hours. That way I can load it in the morning and have it just about done when I come home in the evening. Works quite well. Doesn't really matter if it takes 10 minutes longer or not.
- BeefWellington 5y agoPeople were automating timing of things before we had electricity. It's certainly not a requirement to be internet-connected to make that happen.
- slig 5y agoFor a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting a Piezoelectric Sensor, RPi, couple of resistors, and a clamping diode.
- pmontra 5y agoThis assumes a lot of extra skills and knowledge. As a Linux user I know RPi pretty well but piezoelectric is something I used to light gas, resistors are something I studied at school (and things that heat), a diode... maybe, but clamping? I won't be able to put those pieces together. I'd buy a smart plug with a http url to call to turn it on and off and make a web app running on a RPi at home to manage that plug.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoI'm pretty sure that was a sarcastic reference to that well-known dropbox comment.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- raverbashing 5y ago"just estimates" no, I don't buy this. Unless you're actually looking for sub-minute precision on its timing, the cycle time is pretty fixed. Dishwashers don't care about load or dirtyness, they care about the program you select. Too much user lazyness and machine automatism make things go sideways. Also, machines that let you open the door while it's running might result in more confusion than anything else (is the cycle just started or it is actually ending?).
- denton-scratch 5y agoI don't need to be notified when the job is complete; I press "Start" before I go to bed, and unload in the morning. I don't mind if my clothes are a bit crumpled. But machines have had a "rinse hold" function since forever; if you can't tolerate slightly-crumpled clothes, do the rinse-and-spin in the morning.
- avs733 5y agoWe have one it’s great. The ability to start it, and confirm it’s started is a game changer. Especially because it’s preloaded with the chemicals. We don’t want to start it until we’re sure all the floating dishes actually got loaded. There’s a stray dish, a glass, life’s just a little chaotic getting dinner cleaned up and everyone to bed. We forget or we hit start but someone else opens it to add something. Without the act of adding soap and with two or three people adding things it’s surprisingly easy. A lot of these are features as a single guy I found stupid. Now married with a kid they are just little enablers of greater calm.
- duffyjp 5y agoMy ~25 year old dishwasher has a delay-start. That solved the stray dish issue for us.
- micromacrofoot 5y agoDoesn't work for me because half the time someone doesn't close the dishwasher completely.
- tomerv 5y agoWouldn't a simple LED indicator have the same result? My "dumb" dishwasher has a small light it shines on the floor when it's on. Also, if I set it up and close it without actually starting it, it beeps to let me know.
- ThePadawan 5y agoThe only improvement on that which I've seen is a dishwasher which projects the runtime left onto the floor (instead of just a off/on light).
- frosted-flakes 5y agoWhy can't it just display that on the screen?
- tyingq 5y agoMost of them are sort of silly, but it does have some options that make use of the "smartness". The manual is here: https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/10546880-000-01_10546880-01.pdf https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/10546880-000-01_1... Most of the smart stuff is in "settings" starting on page 64. Stuff like configuring it to run only during a low electric rate period (nights). Notifying you when filters need changing. Keeping track of detergent reservoir levels.
- can16358p 5y agoHonestly those are all welcome features for sure. The only problem is they gather too much data and call home. Not to mention this particular model/brand does it, but most do.
- bmj 5y agoMy (non-internet connected) washing machine does this very thing. Why does an appliance need to be connected to a network to provide this functionality? So I can track it on my phone? As another comment pointed out, until these appliances can load themselves, I still need to be physically present at some point in time. An LED indicator can tell me to clean the filter or fill the cleaning reservoir, and I don't have to enter my WiFi information or download security updates.
- chasd00 5y agoif phone integration was the reason for it all couldn't it be done cheaper and easier over bluetooth? i think the only reason for inet connected dishwasher is stats gathering to help craft a more effective sales campaign for more dishwashers.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago> configuring it to run only during a low electric rate period (nights) My dishwasher has a start delay function, basically the same... although if it's 'smart' I guess you could align it with things like a smart grid, highly variable rates, solar panels and battery. But that's something for the 1%. Filters is a double-edged sword, because since it's a consumable, it's in the manufacturer's interest to give false positives for the need to replace filters, like printer ink. Detergent reservoir levels, I don't know if that's a thing, mine has a reservoir for salt, but I have to put a detergent tablet in myself for every cycle. Would be convenient if it was built in, I guess.
- ensignavenger 5y agoThe only thing I could think of that would be useful would be delayed starting. Often we load the dishwasher but don't want to start it right away for one reason or another... usually though a simple button to start in 1..2..3.. hours would be fine, though. And I don't think that feature is worth the tradeoffs. Especially if it requires an Internet connection to use, instead of just talking directing to my personal home server.
- technothrasher 5y agoYou don't need a wifi connection for delayed start. Every dishwasher I've owned in the past 20 years has had a delayed start button.
- chasd00 5y agoif you look closely on your dishwasher it probably already has this feature. It's very common. Look for a button labeled "delay"
- da_chicken 5y ago> what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? The purpose of IOT is pretty clear, although it is also pretty broad. It's a win-win for the manufacturer, but probably a ticking time bomb for the customer. The Good: 1. Reduce production costs by converting electronic control to digital control with COTS chips. 2. Reduce development costs by reducing the cost of correcting bug-free software. The system requires updates because it assumes that it is faulty. 3. Allow additional services, such as special run cycles, custom control of run cycles, etc. 4. Collecting anonymous telemetry data to determine actual use patterns, allowing for better focus on features people actually use or may want. Potentially allows for increases in efficiency (including end user resource costs like time, water, and electricity). The Bad: 1. Aggregating anonymous telemetry data to sell to third parties for additional profit. 2. Facilitating planned obsolescence (software EOL = appliance EOL). 3. Denial of right-to-repair (John Deere). 4. Facilitating vendor lock-in. 5. Collecting non-anonymous telemetry data used for targeted advertising.
- mattbrewsbytes 5y agoYou missed one of the Bad: * Potential for wifi chipsets to collect other data from your network and send to anywhere. If you are going to do IoT or have wifi enabled appliances, setup a separate network for them to operate on. I find it easier to just not have them, so far.
- slantyyz 5y agoAlso, since dishwashers are "supposed to" last 10 years or more, they may force you to keep an older version of Wifi available on your network (e.g., 2.4ghz n) when all of your other devices may be on the latest version.
- JoeAltmaier 5y agoNone of those 'good' are very good, or good at all. The buttons on the front are a few cents. On a $1000 appliance, that benefits only the manufacturer (if even them). Being able to ship buggy software, again a benefit to the manufacturer. More complex controls for more complex cycles etc? Questionable if this kind of fiddling on e.g. a dishwasher is of any use. Collecting data - because we want to spend Saturday in a spreadsheet, going over our dishwasher telemetry? Oh! Maybe you mean, also only of use to the manufacturer. Not my problem; not a reason to make my device more complicated for me.
- chaorace 5y agoHere's one idea: sensor-based washing. I doubt anyone is currently doing this, but the idea can at least hold water (ba-dum-tss). You'd keep the dumb maximum spray-area approach for the pre-wash & rinse cycles, but replace the main wash cycle with a "smart-nozzle" approach that uses a radar (or some other non-optical sensor) to detect surfaces and apply a directed spray. Theoretically, that would save on energy costs/impact (heating water costs way more than running a SoC/radar), even if the overall wash quality wouldn't really be improved much in most cases. Plus... the technology would be super marketable, imagine the commercials!
- rsynnott 5y agoWashing machines at least have been doing fancy stuff like this to some extent for a long time.
- vel0city 5y agoMy washing machine detects how much stuff is on the various racks and will adjust its time running the sprayers for each rack based on how much stuff is there and the turbidity of the water (how dirty) it is for the given levels. So if the top rack is pretty empty or just glasses which are mostly clean, while the bottom rack is full of pots with lots of grease, it will spend more time operating the sprayers on the bottom rack than the top rack.
- jmartinpetersen 5y agoI wish my dishwasher could automaticly start whenver the price of electricity was low. I can manualle delay it by doing simple math in my head and forecasting prices, but it would be easier and more foolproof if I could script it with IFTTT.
- bluGill 5y agoI doubt the cost in engineer hours would ever pay for your savings. Dishwashers don't use much water. Normally I'd say someone should check the numbers, but this time I think you have better things to do...
- goodpoint 5y agoIn some countries with day/night tariff appliancies can trivially detect nighttime by voltage. It's been used for decades and it's extremely cheap and reliable.
- jmartinpetersen 5y agoOur tariffs for electricity vary by the hour. I don't know how to detect that by voltage?
- simplyaccont 5y agoit's actually one of the reasons for wifi in miele dishwasher. it can fetch data about electricity pricing in order to run when it's lowest
- vel0city 5y agoYour dishwasher probably uses ~1kWh of energy per cycle. Unless you're running your dishwasher a lot, or you're in an area where the difference per kWh is really massive, you're really not saving that much money.
- jmartinpetersen 5y agoSaturday at peek hours 1kWH cost me 4.27 DKK. Six hours later it was at 1.67 DKK. That's $0.4 saved per kWh. We run our dishwasher every day.
- duxup 5y agoMy clothes washer will alert me when it is done. It is handy if you have a lot of laundry to do (kids) and you want to be on top of doing one load after another / not forget.
- zbrozek 5y agoIs the chime at the end of the cycle inadequate?
- micromacrofoot 5y agoYes, because it assumes you can hear it.
- duxup 5y agoMy washer is not where I always hear it and the notification on my phone is a handy reminder.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThat's a feature I'd kinda like, but I won't rope myself into the manufacturer's ecosystem just to get it. Especially not Samsung, the maker of my current washing machine. Not that I'll ever buy another Samsung appliance, but that's a different story. What I did instead was paste an Aqara zigbee vibration sensor to the side of the washing machine. Then a little bit of Home Assistant magic and it tells me when the washer seems to be done. In case I didn't hear the symphony it plays at the end of a cycle.
- chasd00 5y agobecause what if it was discovered some virus survived on dishes rinsed with cold water? With smart devices an executive order could be signed that mandated all manufactures of smart dishwashers OTA update to only rinse with hot water. See? perfect. /the real depressing and scary thing about the above is this comment having to indicate i'm being sarcastic