5 ms·

“A template can't do that for me...and it's a pain to enter that on a tablet. It effectively nullifies the use of tablets as effective EHR.” Entering so little

by ugh 15y ago

“A template can't do that for me...and it's a pain to enter that on a tablet. It effectively nullifies the use of tablets as effective EHR.” Entering so little text on a tablet is definitely not a pain for me and, though quite a bit slower than typing on a hardware keyboard, it’s also quite a bit faster than handwriting for me. I don’t get why so many people seem to think that tablet keyboards are unusable, I never had any problems typing a few paragraphs of text on them. This seems like some kind of weird meme demonizing all software keyboards as inferior to everything.

inuhj 15y ago
It's not a "weird meme". It's my personal experience. You may be able to enter data quickly on a tablet but many of the physicians I work with still type(painfully slowly) with 2 fingers. Maybe drchrono will be appealing to younger physicians who are comfortable with tablets...but the average physician is old. If I demo'd drchrono and it was slower than my current system you're not going to sell me by telling me that "I'll get used to it." They're definitely not going to sell any major hospital on drchrono unless they also offer a computer based interface. The "old dog" physicians will never figure out how to type on it.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- tsunamifury 15y ago
  If I saw a phsycisan painfully typing with two fingers I'd be running from that hospital.
- ugh 15y ago
  The weird meme are the grandiose claims of failure. I can’t square those with reality.
- azulum 15y ago
  "but the average physician is old." this is a curious statement to me for three reasons: 1) the ipad has been hailed as a device for first time computer users—the very old and the very young or even the physically/mentally challenged. 2) if they type painfully slowly with two fingers on a tablet, how do they type on a laptop? 3) the layers of abstraction are much greater on a laptop than a tablet. true, data input may be a little more tedious, but it will still be infinitely less tedious than dealing with paper files, with the added bonus of being instantaneously transferable should the patient be traveling. and if they are already using a laptop, then what is the dilemma? anyway, the "old dog" argument strikes me as a lazy cop-out—but if true, doesn't bode well for the mental acuity of said old dogs. i've always assumed that doctors are innately curious, always trying new things tempered by the old things that work†. if these old dogs can't step out of their comfort zone to try something new, it doesn't give me much hope for their patients. † i understand the toxicity of the new, when science claims to have found no difference between breast milk and formula, for instance, but gathering information does not necessarily equal an endorsement. and for the record, touch screens are very old technology, we just haven't been able to implement them in a mostly non-frustrating way until now.
- jrmg 15y ago
  many of the physicians I work with still type(painfully slowly) with 2 fingers Aren't those the people for whom typing on a tablet software keyboard won't be any slower? Surely, if anyone does, it's fast touch typists who have problems with slowdown.
famousactress 15y ago
"Entering so little text on a tablet is definitely not a pain for me" There's a flaw in your argument right there. The fact that you specifically suggest that entering a little bit of text isn't a problem implies that entering large amounts of text is. Physicians live in these systems. If your a developer, consider it analogous to an IDE. Are you ready to switch to full-time coding on a tablet? I think tablets are awesome, the iPad especially... I also think Dr Chrono appears to be doing some really cool things in their re-thinking of the EMR for tablet computing.. but I think there's a big difference between you and I being happy with the iPad for our email, and physicians using it to document their EMRs (at least by typing). Lots of work to do. Full disclosure: I build EMR/EHR systems, and have for quite a while.
- ugh 15y ago
  There is a difference between writing pages of text in one sitting and writing bits and pieces spread out. I was specifically responding to the use case of entering that paragraph of text the parent mentioned. If there are situations where physicians have to type pages of text not spread out over the day but all at once they probably shouldn’t use a software keyboard.
  - famousactress 15y ago
    I think this is something of a fallacy that we might tell ourselves (as developers). There's a friction quotient to mobile-text-entry. Let's just assume there's linear friction (for your argument to be benefited by non-linear friction typing on a mobile device would have to become more painful the longer we do it in a sitting, which I don't believe happens). So if the friction cost is say 30% for me to type on a mobile device compared to a traditional keyboard.. it's often worth the cost to me to achieve a given outcome. Especially if there's actually a net benefit to the mobile-ness. Inviting a friend to a party. Keyboard cost: 30 seconds. Mobile cost: 40 seconds. But say I'm out and about or in the car? Suddenly the benefit swings big time. In the same situation, say I need to write a long email. Keyboard cost: 30 minutes, Mobile cost: 40 minutes.. and suddenly the distance from my house may not be a factor. Now imagine I have about 20 of those emails to write today... I'm worried that the way we use our mobile devices (facebook, etc) can warp our perceptions of just how significant the friction for data entry is, and promote this idea that little-text is easy, long-text is still hard. I think that's wrong, by a lot. I think there's loads of innovation left to do in human-computer-interaction with touch screen and mobile devices and projects like Dr Chrono get me really excited because I think it plunges a team of smart devs headlong into a problem-space that in the long run, won't tolerate less than stellar friction quotients.

by ugh 15y ago

inuhj 15y ago

It's not a "weird meme". It's my personal experience. You may be able to enter data quickly on a tablet but many of the physicians I work with still type(painfully slowly) with 2 fingers. Maybe drchrono will be appealing to younger physicians who are comfortable with tablets...but the average physician is old. If I demo'd drchrono and it was slower than my current system you're not going to sell me by telling me that "I'll get used to it." They're definitely not going to sell any major hospital on drchrono unless they also offer a computer based interface. The "old dog" physicians will never figure out how to type on it.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
tsunamifury 15y ago
If I saw a phsycisan painfully typing with two fingers I'd be running from that hospital.
ugh 15y ago
The weird meme are the grandiose claims of failure. I can’t square those with reality.
azulum 15y ago
"but the average physician is old." this is a curious statement to me for three reasons: 1) the ipad has been hailed as a device for first time computer users—the very old and the very young or even the physically/mentally challenged. 2) if they type painfully slowly with two fingers on a tablet, how do they type on a laptop? 3) the layers of abstraction are much greater on a laptop than a tablet. true, data input may be a little more tedious, but it will still be infinitely less tedious than dealing with paper files, with the added bonus of being instantaneously transferable should the patient be traveling. and if they are already using a laptop, then what is the dilemma? anyway, the "old dog" argument strikes me as a lazy cop-out—but if true, doesn't bode well for the mental acuity of said old dogs. i've always assumed that doctors are innately curious, always trying new things tempered by the old things that work†. if these old dogs can't step out of their comfort zone to try something new, it doesn't give me much hope for their patients. † i understand the toxicity of the new, when science claims to have found no difference between breast milk and formula, for instance, but gathering information does not necessarily equal an endorsement. and for the record, touch screens are very old technology, we just haven't been able to implement them in a mostly non-frustrating way until now.
jrmg 15y ago
many of the physicians I work with still type(painfully slowly) with 2 fingers Aren't those the people for whom typing on a tablet software keyboard won't be any slower? Surely, if anyone does, it's fast touch typists who have problems with slowdown.

famousactress 15y ago

"Entering so little text on a tablet is definitely not a pain for me" There's a flaw in your argument right there. The fact that you specifically suggest that entering a little bit of text isn't a problem implies that entering large amounts of text is. Physicians live in these systems. If your a developer, consider it analogous to an IDE. Are you ready to switch to full-time coding on a tablet? I think tablets are awesome, the iPad especially... I also think Dr Chrono appears to be doing some really cool things in their re-thinking of the EMR for tablet computing.. but I think there's a big difference between you and I being happy with the iPad for our email, and physicians using it to document their EMRs (at least by typing). Lots of work to do. Full disclosure: I build EMR/EHR systems, and have for quite a while.

ugh 15y ago
There is a difference between writing pages of text in one sitting and writing bits and pieces spread out. I was specifically responding to the use case of entering that paragraph of text the parent mentioned. If there are situations where physicians have to type pages of text not spread out over the day but all at once they probably shouldn’t use a software keyboard.
- famousactress 15y ago
  I think this is something of a fallacy that we might tell ourselves (as developers). There's a friction quotient to mobile-text-entry. Let's just assume there's linear friction (for your argument to be benefited by non-linear friction typing on a mobile device would have to become more painful the longer we do it in a sitting, which I don't believe happens). So if the friction cost is say 30% for me to type on a mobile device compared to a traditional keyboard.. it's often worth the cost to me to achieve a given outcome. Especially if there's actually a net benefit to the mobile-ness. Inviting a friend to a party. Keyboard cost: 30 seconds. Mobile cost: 40 seconds. But say I'm out and about or in the car? Suddenly the benefit swings big time. In the same situation, say I need to write a long email. Keyboard cost: 30 minutes, Mobile cost: 40 minutes.. and suddenly the distance from my house may not be a factor. Now imagine I have about 20 of those emails to write today... I'm worried that the way we use our mobile devices (facebook, etc) can warp our perceptions of just how significant the friction for data entry is, and promote this idea that little-text is easy, long-text is still hard. I think that's wrong, by a lot. I think there's loads of innovation left to do in human-computer-interaction with touch screen and mobile devices and projects like Dr Chrono get me really excited because I think it plunges a team of smart devs headlong into a problem-space that in the long run, won't tolerate less than stellar friction quotients.