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We're talking a $5 per vaccine difference, which is minuscule compared to the economic impact and lives saved. It was wrong of the EU to push so hard on price.

We're talking a $5 per vaccine difference, which is minuscule compared to the economic impact and lives saved. It was wrong of the EU to push so hard on price. But regardless your own article claims production capacity in Europe was the problem (precisely the thing that OWS and the Defense Production Act rectified in the US): > “Production was always going to be a problem,” said Schulthess. The industry had been pulling back from Europe for years — in part because of growing vaccine hesitancy. “It takes five years and a pile of cash to build a [vaccine factory] by the book,” said Schulthess. And European infrastructure was unprepared for vaccine distribution (again from your own article): > The Hague had bet so strongly on the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab being the first to be approved that it hadn’t finished preparing to transport mRNA vaccines, which need to be kept at temperatures far below freezing And there were bureaucratic delays associated with getting other vaccine variants (same article): > Countries can’t just follow the U.K.’s lead by unilaterally authorizing vaccines purchased by the EU — doses purchased by Brussels can only be released after they get the EMA’s signoff, according to the agreement. So even though Budapest tried to make a point by green-lighting the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, it won’t get any shots before the rest of the bloc. Please read your own article as it names and shames all the reasons of the European delay, of which merely one is price. > have a higher vaccination rate and overtook the US by now Yes, but we're discussing the impact of OWS which would only change how fast the initial rollout was. Obviously now there are a lot of antivaxers in the US who will never get the vaccine but that's unrelated to OWS.

NicoJuicy 5y ago
I did, but you don't know how the EU works. Not only 5$ difference, but a higher accountability from pharma. That was almost all waved in the US as usual. But you probably didn't notice how there were almost no issues with the western countries in the EU and the article talked about the issue with the eastern countries in the EU? That's not a problem the EU can really solve for them. A country was responsible for their rollout and procurement. The vaccine was bought together as an option and countries could decide to participate, that's the EU ( https://www.ft.com/content/c1575e05-70e5-4e5f-b58c-cde5c99aba5f https://www.ft.com/content/c1575e05-70e5-4e5f-b58c-cde5c99ab... ) - all of them did. Germany also publicly blamed the US for buying too much vaccines and sucking up all the production at a premium price in front of other countries. You didn't really read my previous point about that ( looked for the article, but it's hard to find it seems) Let's be clear, I'm from Belgium and I'm pretty sure that we could used some military law to force dips on vaccines we created ( Pfizer/Biontech) and could have done everything faster than the US if we wanted. But we didn't, since it's not fair, selfish and we wouldn't get away with it like the US :) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-vaccine-exports-eu-uk-us/2021/03/10/1899556c-81a0-11eb-be22-32d331d87530_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-vaccine-ex... ( read the part of Belgium)
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  > But you probably didn't notice how there were almost no issues with the western countries in the EU and the article talked about the issue with the eastern countries in the EU? Did we read the same article? It literally blames the Netherlands for having insufficient refrigeration infrastructure for mRNA vaccines. > Germany also publicly blamed the US for buying too much vaccines and sucking up all the production at a premium price in front of other countries Which as the article says, was politics to cover up for their own delays. > I'm from Belgium and I'm pretty sure that we could used some military law to force dips on vaccines we created ( Pfizer/Biontech) and could have done everything faster than the US if we wanted. But we didn't, since it's not fair, selfish and we wouldn't get away with it like the US That just seems like an excuse. The EU also failed to invest in sufficient production capacity by fronting capital to jump start production before the vaccines were approved. From your own FT link: > But investments by the EU to help companies cover upfront costs appear to have been relatively modest compared with those agreed by the US. Mr Wojahn said the EU had pre-financed production capacity with roughly €2bn in the summer and early autumn. In contrast, Donald Trump’s administration in the US began funding vaccine producers through its Operation Warp Speed programme back in March. It has spent more than $12bn to date — more than a third of which was given to Boston-based biotech Moderna alone Germany also blames the European Commission in your FT article: > But German politicians, including Bavarian premier Markus Söder, who also leads one of Germany’s governing parties, the Christian Social Union, have said the blame sits with the EU. “There was probably too much bureaucracy at the European Commission . . . too few of the right vaccines were ordered and price debates went on for too long”, Mr Söder told German newspaper Bild am Sonntag. And from your Washington Post article: > Even as Brussels and European capitals cry foul over bearing the brunt of supply chain issues from manufacturers and point to continued exports, sluggish vaccination programs in many European countries mean millions of delivered doses haven’t been used. The E.U.’s most populous member state, Germany, has administered just over 8 million vaccine doses but still has a backlog of 4.3 million doses in storage, according to government figures. Did you read your own articles or did you have an opinion you were looking to confirm coming into this conversation?

NicoJuicy 5y ago

I did, but you don't know how the EU works. Not only 5$ difference, but a higher accountability from pharma. That was almost all waved in the US as usual. But you probably didn't notice how there were almost no issues with the western countries in the EU and the article talked about the issue with the eastern countries in the EU? That's not a problem the EU can really solve for them. A country was responsible for their rollout and procurement. The vaccine was bought together as an option and countries could decide to participate, that's the EU ( https://www.ft.com/content/c1575e05-70e5-4e5f-b58c-cde5c99aba5f https://www.ft.com/content/c1575e05-70e5-4e5f-b58c-cde5c99ab... ) - all of them did. Germany also publicly blamed the US for buying too much vaccines and sucking up all the production at a premium price in front of other countries. You didn't really read my previous point about that ( looked for the article, but it's hard to find it seems) Let's be clear, I'm from Belgium and I'm pretty sure that we could used some military law to force dips on vaccines we created ( Pfizer/Biontech) and could have done everything faster than the US if we wanted. But we didn't, since it's not fair, selfish and we wouldn't get away with it like the US :) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-vaccine-exports-eu-uk-us/2021/03/10/1899556c-81a0-11eb-be22-32d331d87530_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-vaccine-ex... ( read the part of Belgium)

e4e78a06 5y ago
> But you probably didn't notice how there were almost no issues with the western countries in the EU and the article talked about the issue with the eastern countries in the EU? Did we read the same article? It literally blames the Netherlands for having insufficient refrigeration infrastructure for mRNA vaccines. > Germany also publicly blamed the US for buying too much vaccines and sucking up all the production at a premium price in front of other countries Which as the article says, was politics to cover up for their own delays. > I'm from Belgium and I'm pretty sure that we could used some military law to force dips on vaccines we created ( Pfizer/Biontech) and could have done everything faster than the US if we wanted. But we didn't, since it's not fair, selfish and we wouldn't get away with it like the US That just seems like an excuse. The EU also failed to invest in sufficient production capacity by fronting capital to jump start production before the vaccines were approved. From your own FT link: > But investments by the EU to help companies cover upfront costs appear to have been relatively modest compared with those agreed by the US. Mr Wojahn said the EU had pre-financed production capacity with roughly €2bn in the summer and early autumn. In contrast, Donald Trump’s administration in the US began funding vaccine producers through its Operation Warp Speed programme back in March. It has spent more than $12bn to date — more than a third of which was given to Boston-based biotech Moderna alone Germany also blames the European Commission in your FT article: > But German politicians, including Bavarian premier Markus Söder, who also leads one of Germany’s governing parties, the Christian Social Union, have said the blame sits with the EU. “There was probably too much bureaucracy at the European Commission . . . too few of the right vaccines were ordered and price debates went on for too long”, Mr Söder told German newspaper Bild am Sonntag. And from your Washington Post article: > Even as Brussels and European capitals cry foul over bearing the brunt of supply chain issues from manufacturers and point to continued exports, sluggish vaccination programs in many European countries mean millions of delivered doses haven’t been used. The E.U.’s most populous member state, Germany, has administered just over 8 million vaccine doses but still has a backlog of 4.3 million doses in storage, according to government figures. Did you read your own articles or did you have an opinion you were looking to confirm coming into this conversation?