3 ms·

As for the water bottle vs. rotating weight, I noted that as well. Which is why I compared dropping 100-200g of rotating weight (tires) to dropping a 500-750mL

As for the water bottle vs. rotating weight, I noted that as well. Which is why I compared dropping 100-200g of rotating weight (tires) to dropping a 500-750mL water bottle. It is a very rough comparison, I haven’t ever done the math to figure out how close they are, but I suspect it is close enough. Even 200g of rotating weight isn’t THAT significant when you consider the likelihood your pair of wheels weigh 2500g+ (assuming low end box wheels since we are discussing wire beads).

walrus01 5y ago
As with some other highly technical disciplines I think what we're seeing is the possibility of going down a rabbit-hole of optimizing for 1-2% extra efficiency in various subsystems/components... For people who road cycle very seriously this will lead towards things like bikes that have a $6000-8000 all up cost with deep aero section wheels, expensive tires, ultra lightweight components to put the whole thing near a UCI-illegal weight, and so on. It's probably easy to spend $1500 on a road bike combined aero bar-stem package that comes out of a single piece CF mold and has very marginally better aerodynamic performance in wind at >35km/h, but the returns are minuscule. There is definitely a phenomenon of diminishing returns with increasing money spent above a certain point, that would be difficult to subjectively notice unless tested by a person that rides a very large amount like >10,000 km/year.
- sasawpg 5y ago
  Don’t underestimate middle aged men in lycra with too much money to burn. They’ll spend hours obsessing about individual components and won’t bat an eye when it comes to spending $15k or more (Canadian, a bit closer to $10k USD/EUR) on a brand new bike every couple years, $3-5k on the newest dimpled wheels from the big Z manufacturer, tires, and so forth, all in the name of besting their mates in the Saturday morning world classic coffee ride. While I don’t strictly identify as above (I’ve more sense than to spend $1000/watt, or so I like to claim anyway), I do my fair share of purchasing the extra few watts. I’ve spent an embarrassing amount of time obsessing about what the optimal tire choice is for my next Cat 3 CX race. At least I’m realistic enough to know the hoards of 16-20 year olds with more handling skills and less fear will destroy my every day of the week. Joke is on them because they’ve real life coming to crush them :p In all seriousness, I know fully well the 5-10W gain is marginal for me at best and will only get me so far. Genes, age and hours in saddle cannot be purchased. Being a late comer to the sport and not being blessed with the requisite body type, I can’t have any one of those three, but I can however throw more money at the hobby, unlike the younger ones can. And why not enjoy myself while doing so and ride around in style. As for diminishing returns, don’t talk to bike enthusiasts about those. They’ll only be outdone by audiophiles
  - sasawpg 5y ago
    Side note - loving the downvote! I can only guess a local Cat 5 legend got upset they didn't win their Tuesday night worlds even after spending $4k on Zipp 454s. That or didn't bother to read my whole post where I'm poking fun at myself for doing precisely this :p
    - walrus01 5y ago
      As somebody that's now literally a middle aged man in lyrca sometimes - I find the whole phenomenon really amusing, but then again, I've also been riding since I was a lot younger, and poorer, and the best I could afford was an all-aluminum specialized allez with 9-speed 105 stuff on it. Back in the day, I probably rode 4-5x more cumulative km per year than I do now. And at that time, I found middle aged men in lyrca with more money than common sense to be equally funny.
      - sasawpg 5y ago
        Have you taken a look at prices of a used Allez lately? Put a few IG/TikTok faces to it and it doubled the cost. Once upon a time it was a cost efficient way to race crits and not worry too much about cost of crashes. Now it is apparently a high end highly desired bike … Edit: I’m also a ma… hang on, when does middle age start? I may still have a year to go technically! (But not in reality)
        walrus01 5y ago
        In 2005 I paid $1500 (USD) for an aluminum allez elite with the 9 speed 105 on it... Cheapest things on it were the FSA crankset and the fairly cheap 20 front/24 rear generic specialized house brand wheelset. Equivalent thing today would probably be a lot more. 10 speed tiagra is probably superior in every way to the groupset I had then, but a comparable bike now might be $2600? Or more.
  - droidno9 5y ago
    I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epG_qaCimU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epG_qaCimU.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Let's also not forget the impact of visiting or not visiting a toilet before riding. The weight change dwarfs most of the differences between single component choices, possibly all the way up to most of the components combined.
  - sasawpg 5y ago
    Not to mention risks and extra time added for mid-ride bathroom stop! If you don’t coffee and poop before a ride, are you even a real cyclist?

walrus01 5y ago

As with some other highly technical disciplines I think what we're seeing is the possibility of going down a rabbit-hole of optimizing for 1-2% extra efficiency in various subsystems/components... For people who road cycle very seriously this will lead towards things like bikes that have a $6000-8000 all up cost with deep aero section wheels, expensive tires, ultra lightweight components to put the whole thing near a UCI-illegal weight, and so on. It's probably easy to spend $1500 on a road bike combined aero bar-stem package that comes out of a single piece CF mold and has very marginally better aerodynamic performance in wind at >35km/h, but the returns are minuscule. There is definitely a phenomenon of diminishing returns with increasing money spent above a certain point, that would be difficult to subjectively notice unless tested by a person that rides a very large amount like >10,000 km/year.

sasawpg 5y ago
Don’t underestimate middle aged men in lycra with too much money to burn. They’ll spend hours obsessing about individual components and won’t bat an eye when it comes to spending $15k or more (Canadian, a bit closer to $10k USD/EUR) on a brand new bike every couple years, $3-5k on the newest dimpled wheels from the big Z manufacturer, tires, and so forth, all in the name of besting their mates in the Saturday morning world classic coffee ride. While I don’t strictly identify as above (I’ve more sense than to spend $1000/watt, or so I like to claim anyway), I do my fair share of purchasing the extra few watts. I’ve spent an embarrassing amount of time obsessing about what the optimal tire choice is for my next Cat 3 CX race. At least I’m realistic enough to know the hoards of 16-20 year olds with more handling skills and less fear will destroy my every day of the week. Joke is on them because they’ve real life coming to crush them :p In all seriousness, I know fully well the 5-10W gain is marginal for me at best and will only get me so far. Genes, age and hours in saddle cannot be purchased. Being a late comer to the sport and not being blessed with the requisite body type, I can’t have any one of those three, but I can however throw more money at the hobby, unlike the younger ones can. And why not enjoy myself while doing so and ride around in style. As for diminishing returns, don’t talk to bike enthusiasts about those. They’ll only be outdone by audiophiles
- sasawpg 5y ago
  Side note - loving the downvote! I can only guess a local Cat 5 legend got upset they didn't win their Tuesday night worlds even after spending $4k on Zipp 454s. That or didn't bother to read my whole post where I'm poking fun at myself for doing precisely this :p
  - walrus01 5y ago
    As somebody that's now literally a middle aged man in lyrca sometimes - I find the whole phenomenon really amusing, but then again, I've also been riding since I was a lot younger, and poorer, and the best I could afford was an all-aluminum specialized allez with 9-speed 105 stuff on it. Back in the day, I probably rode 4-5x more cumulative km per year than I do now. And at that time, I found middle aged men in lyrca with more money than common sense to be equally funny.
    - sasawpg 5y ago
      Have you taken a look at prices of a used Allez lately? Put a few IG/TikTok faces to it and it doubled the cost. Once upon a time it was a cost efficient way to race crits and not worry too much about cost of crashes. Now it is apparently a high end highly desired bike … Edit: I’m also a ma… hang on, when does middle age start? I may still have a year to go technically! (But not in reality)
      - walrus01 5y ago
        In 2005 I paid $1500 (USD) for an aluminum allez elite with the 9 speed 105 on it... Cheapest things on it were the FSA crankset and the fairly cheap 20 front/24 rear generic specialized house brand wheelset. Equivalent thing today would probably be a lot more. 10 speed tiagra is probably superior in every way to the groupset I had then, but a comparable bike now might be $2600? Or more.
- droidno9 5y ago
  I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epG_qaCimU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epG_qaCimU.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Let's also not forget the impact of visiting or not visiting a toilet before riding. The weight change dwarfs most of the differences between single component choices, possibly all the way up to most of the components combined.
- sasawpg 5y ago
  Not to mention risks and extra time added for mid-ride bathroom stop! If you don’t coffee and poop before a ride, are you even a real cyclist?