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The range. An F150 can be ordered with a 30-something gallon gas tank. So 500-600 miles is nothing. Pulling a heavy trailer (say 8,000lbs) will take that down

The range. An F150 can be ordered with a 30-something gallon gas tank. So 500-600 miles is nothing. Pulling a heavy trailer (say 8,000lbs) will take that down to 10mpg but the electric model might not even break 100 miles towing.

easton 5y ago
Ford said that their range estimates were all made with a bunch of stuff in the bed, of course that’s not comparable to towing but I’m willing to bet that it’s not going to be as bad as 100 miles.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Bed capacity isn't towing
  - travisb 5y ago
    More specifically, when it comes to cargo on highways, weight almost doesn't matter at all with respect to fuel economy. Adding weight to the bed has nearly zero aerodynamic penalty and so doesn't change mileage much at all as long as the road is level and is not start and go traffic. Towing on a highway, is primarily an aerodynamic concern because most trailers have the aerodynamics of bricks and are (partially) outside the designed aerodynamic envelope of the rest of the vehicle. ICE vehicles take a noticeable hit on range when towing, even considering ICEs become more efficient when under moderate loads. There's no reason to hope that EVs won't suffer at least as bad, and 50% range loss is normal in an ICE when towing something large like a camper.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Bed weight isn't remotely close to the same weight range as towing capacity- rather than engine strength, the limiting factor is suspension. Driving while towing will take the same amount of extra power, whether you have a gas engine or electric motor. Higher load on the motor = less range. I think cutting the range in half would be pretty surprising (in a good way).
ggm 5y ago
Not to diminish the substance of the range/torque questions, I think there's a mass distortion effect at play here. These trucks are bought by a huge number of people and everyone assumes they're median for the range and pull. It's very likely the significant but none the less smaller cohort at the extreme range and pulling end exist, and have need to voice concern. Most of the buyers will never stretch this problem. In Australia, where the myth of vast commutes is awesomely loud, especially amongst farmers and tradies, when the stats on average drive per day are abundantly clear this isn't the predominant problem. Is it a problem? Yes. For a small but vocal minority of the future drivers of these EV. Diesel isn't going to disappear overnight. Trucks are alive and well now, which will be there to be used, with ICE, for decades. The production might cease, but that hardly stopped the VW/Microbus from living beyond its expected lifetime, spare parts and all. Point a farmer at an opportunistic cost saving and reliability improvement on a $750k+ piece of farm machinery and they'll go there when their first neighbour shows the bottom line difference. They're like penguins on the ice-floe, nobody wants to be the one finding the lurking leopard seal in the water. But once its clear a combine/thresher/header machine works better, cheaper by battery, and has lower TCO they'll be all over it like a rash. If you combine that with huge roof surface area on sheds and opportunistic cooling/shade from PV cells they'll be off-grid power advocates in seconds. Will farmers north of 50 have problems with snow in winter? Sure! Oh damn, ok, lets tank the entire EV market because a cohort in the midwest with snow can't "win".. Thats basically what we're seeing here. Everyone assumes they are 'normal' and their 'normal' usage risks determine the entire market. The F150 sells internationally as well as domestically, its market includes a lot more than RV hunters in the forests, and people north of the snow line. Most of the world lives south, the vehicle will sell everywhere if the price is right.
- philistine 5y ago
  Most of the world lives in the Northern hemisphere. Right now I'm learning to use. every. trick. that. exists. to keep frost off my plug-in hybrid windows. It's not easy, but cars are for moving around. You learn to live with their quirks, and their main quirk has been an externality for too long. We'll adapt.
  - 5y ago

easton 5y ago

Ford said that their range estimates were all made with a bunch of stuff in the bed, of course that’s not comparable to towing but I’m willing to bet that it’s not going to be as bad as 100 miles.

bluedino 5y ago
Bed capacity isn't towing
- travisb 5y ago
  More specifically, when it comes to cargo on highways, weight almost doesn't matter at all with respect to fuel economy. Adding weight to the bed has nearly zero aerodynamic penalty and so doesn't change mileage much at all as long as the road is level and is not start and go traffic. Towing on a highway, is primarily an aerodynamic concern because most trailers have the aerodynamics of bricks and are (partially) outside the designed aerodynamic envelope of the rest of the vehicle. ICE vehicles take a noticeable hit on range when towing, even considering ICEs become more efficient when under moderate loads. There's no reason to hope that EVs won't suffer at least as bad, and 50% range loss is normal in an ICE when towing something large like a camper.
zdragnar 5y ago
Bed weight isn't remotely close to the same weight range as towing capacity- rather than engine strength, the limiting factor is suspension. Driving while towing will take the same amount of extra power, whether you have a gas engine or electric motor. Higher load on the motor = less range. I think cutting the range in half would be pretty surprising (in a good way).

ggm 5y ago

Not to diminish the substance of the range/torque questions, I think there's a mass distortion effect at play here. These trucks are bought by a huge number of people and everyone assumes they're median for the range and pull. It's very likely the significant but none the less smaller cohort at the extreme range and pulling end exist, and have need to voice concern. Most of the buyers will never stretch this problem. In Australia, where the myth of vast commutes is awesomely loud, especially amongst farmers and tradies, when the stats on average drive per day are abundantly clear this isn't the predominant problem. Is it a problem? Yes. For a small but vocal minority of the future drivers of these EV. Diesel isn't going to disappear overnight. Trucks are alive and well now, which will be there to be used, with ICE, for decades. The production might cease, but that hardly stopped the VW/Microbus from living beyond its expected lifetime, spare parts and all. Point a farmer at an opportunistic cost saving and reliability improvement on a $750k+ piece of farm machinery and they'll go there when their first neighbour shows the bottom line difference. They're like penguins on the ice-floe, nobody wants to be the one finding the lurking leopard seal in the water. But once its clear a combine/thresher/header machine works better, cheaper by battery, and has lower TCO they'll be all over it like a rash. If you combine that with huge roof surface area on sheds and opportunistic cooling/shade from PV cells they'll be off-grid power advocates in seconds. Will farmers north of 50 have problems with snow in winter? Sure! Oh damn, ok, lets tank the entire EV market because a cohort in the midwest with snow can't "win".. Thats basically what we're seeing here. Everyone assumes they are 'normal' and their 'normal' usage risks determine the entire market. The F150 sells internationally as well as domestically, its market includes a lot more than RV hunters in the forests, and people north of the snow line. Most of the world lives south, the vehicle will sell everywhere if the price is right.

philistine 5y ago
Most of the world lives in the Northern hemisphere. Right now I'm learning to use. every. trick. that. exists. to keep frost off my plug-in hybrid windows. It's not easy, but cars are for moving around. You learn to live with their quirks, and their main quirk has been an externality for too long. We'll adapt.
- 5y ago