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I find it interesting that I only ever hear that kind of complaint from Americans. Here in Europe, cursive/script is the basic way you learn writing, you automa

I find it interesting that I only ever hear that kind of complaint from Americans. Here in Europe, cursive/script is the basic way you learn writing, you automatically transition to something other later in life ... and we have zero hate for either variant. As for lack of legibility: I would guess US teachers not enforcing good style in preschool and elementary school contribute to that.

dmix 5y ago
I can't remember the last time I wrote anything long form without a keyboard. Is that still a thing enough people do to have strong opinions about this?
- b112 5y ago
  Then the zombies happened, and your message to the front couldn't be read, we fell to the hordes because of your lack of skill at cursive thank you the end.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    If I want something to be read I will write it in block letters at a perfectly reasonable speed
    - b112 5y ago
      Truthfully, there is a reason for cursive. Not lifting the pen is a big time save, and cursive is designed to be written without that. EG, F doesn't require a pen lift pause to make the lower bar, in cursive. The way the letters are written are also for maximal speed, and of course, you don't have to lift pen between letters. Any skilled cursive writer will tell you, it is many times faster to write legibly in cursive over block letters. Do we need to learn it any more? Well, I'd say not for the speed benefits. But discounting the speed benefits, acting as if they are a lie, is silly. From my side, I see a lot of people complaining about leaning "dumb things" in public school, in these responses. Wow. Totally don't get the point of it. And of course if we removed what everyone on this thread complained about, in the public school curriculum, well, there'd be nothing to teach! Because everyone likes different things. Which is part of what public school is supposed to be about. Teach the basics, while seeing what you excel in, what interests you. You know what cursive teaches, outside of itself? Fine finger control. Brain to finger control mapping. It is an entirely different skill than keyboard pecking. And while you are learning it, you are still learning grammar, learning to craft thought to speech, and so on. There is no loss here.
iso1631 5y ago
https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we-really-need-joined-handwriting-schools https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we... Someone defending this outdatd practice despite "the tide turning" against it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 Quoting slow children who can't read by the age of five somehow benefit, and rather than testing what children know we should punish them for not having outdated skills > In the same way, bad handwriting leads to poorer test scores, according to a study by the Carnegie Foundation. The same thoughts and ideas expressed "in a less legible version of a paper" tended to be scored more harshly. This form of writing belongs in a museum curation degree, not in primary schools
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  From your second link: > It tested students by asking them to take notes from a lecture, using either a laptop or a pen and paper, and then tested their recall on both facts and deeper conceptual questions. > > Essentially, the study found that students taking long-form notes on pen and paper tended to process the information on a deeper level. And that's what we (should) send kids to school for.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    And that's what we (should) send kids to school for. Is that what we expect out of 6-year-olds, though? Probably not. We expect elementary kids to play and learn basic concepts of things and about the world around them. There is a clear limit to how "deep" a 7-year-old is going to be simply because of maturity and lack of knowledge. We expect more in later schooling years - and that is what your quote refers to. Older children, listening to a lecture. It doesn't mention specifically that this was cursive, either: They were comparing it to typing. And we don't want to force it, either: Later in that same article, it mentions, "typing may help significantly increase exam grades, according to the British Dyslexia Association. And those with physical impairments have long used technology to record their thoughts." Pretty much, writing is a tool that might help you learn assuming you have a neurotypical brain, and even then there are likely other tools you can employ instead.

dmix 5y ago

I can't remember the last time I wrote anything long form without a keyboard. Is that still a thing enough people do to have strong opinions about this?

b112 5y ago
Then the zombies happened, and your message to the front couldn't be read, we fell to the hordes because of your lack of skill at cursive thank you the end.
- iso1631 5y ago
  If I want something to be read I will write it in block letters at a perfectly reasonable speed
  - b112 5y ago
    Truthfully, there is a reason for cursive. Not lifting the pen is a big time save, and cursive is designed to be written without that. EG, F doesn't require a pen lift pause to make the lower bar, in cursive. The way the letters are written are also for maximal speed, and of course, you don't have to lift pen between letters. Any skilled cursive writer will tell you, it is many times faster to write legibly in cursive over block letters. Do we need to learn it any more? Well, I'd say not for the speed benefits. But discounting the speed benefits, acting as if they are a lie, is silly. From my side, I see a lot of people complaining about leaning "dumb things" in public school, in these responses. Wow. Totally don't get the point of it. And of course if we removed what everyone on this thread complained about, in the public school curriculum, well, there'd be nothing to teach! Because everyone likes different things. Which is part of what public school is supposed to be about. Teach the basics, while seeing what you excel in, what interests you. You know what cursive teaches, outside of itself? Fine finger control. Brain to finger control mapping. It is an entirely different skill than keyboard pecking. And while you are learning it, you are still learning grammar, learning to craft thought to speech, and so on. There is no loss here.

iso1631 5y ago

https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we-really-need-joined-handwriting-schools https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we... Someone defending this outdatd practice despite "the tide turning" against it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 Quoting slow children who can't read by the age of five somehow benefit, and rather than testing what children know we should punish them for not having outdated skills > In the same way, bad handwriting leads to poorer test scores, according to a study by the Carnegie Foundation. The same thoughts and ideas expressed "in a less legible version of a paper" tended to be scored more harshly. This form of writing belongs in a museum curation degree, not in primary schools

DocTomoe 5y ago
From your second link: > It tested students by asking them to take notes from a lecture, using either a laptop or a pen and paper, and then tested their recall on both facts and deeper conceptual questions. > > Essentially, the study found that students taking long-form notes on pen and paper tended to process the information on a deeper level. And that's what we (should) send kids to school for.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  And that's what we (should) send kids to school for. Is that what we expect out of 6-year-olds, though? Probably not. We expect elementary kids to play and learn basic concepts of things and about the world around them. There is a clear limit to how "deep" a 7-year-old is going to be simply because of maturity and lack of knowledge. We expect more in later schooling years - and that is what your quote refers to. Older children, listening to a lecture. It doesn't mention specifically that this was cursive, either: They were comparing it to typing. And we don't want to force it, either: Later in that same article, it mentions, "typing may help significantly increase exam grades, according to the British Dyslexia Association. And those with physical impairments have long used technology to record their thoughts." Pretty much, writing is a tool that might help you learn assuming you have a neurotypical brain, and even then there are likely other tools you can employ instead.