4 ms·

One thing I didn't see mentioned are taxes. Kansas has both relatively high side income and property taxes. Building a modest house(200k) on a good income (15

One thing I didn't see mentioned are taxes. Kansas has both relatively high side income and property taxes. Building a modest house(200k) on a good income (150k) would yield something around 12k a year in taxes, if my mental heavily rounding math is right. That may not sound like much to many of us, but compare that with say, TN, where you'd pay closer to 2k in taxes AND have much better weather, amenities, and scenery.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
And with Tennessee, you can get relatively close to the smokey mountains national parks for a reasonable price for a house. You’re then a short hop to Asheville, there are multiple regional airports, and StarLink works there.
- silisili 5y ago
  Agree, but better act fast! Asheville already boomed, and Knoxville is mid-boom at the moment. What was 160ish k in 2019 is hitting the mid 3s today.
  - N1H1L 5y ago
    Knoxville has a lot going for it too.
    - cbfrench 5y ago
      Ditto Chattanooga. Two great sleeper cities when Nashville is getting all the hype.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        My wife really liked Chattanooga when we were considering where to move. The downsides from my perspective: deathly humidity in the summer time, and according to the locals I asked, no food culture to speak of, particularly in terms of ingredients. Otherwise, pretty, nice size, great river ... we ended up near Santa Fe.
        silisili 5y ago
        You're right about that. I lived in Knox for a year, and the humidity is worse than Florida in the summer. Curious where you came from, and how you're liking it? I've lived in high humidity my whole life, and decided to move somewhere drier this year - AZ or NM. Would love to hear your experience.
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Born in the UK. Graduate study in Israel & Germany. Moved to Seattle 1989, 7 years there. Moved to Philadelphia, 23 years there. Moved to near Santa Fe 3 years ago. I personally love the near absolute lack of humidity here near Santa Fe. It changes the impact of the cold, and the heat, especially when combined with direct sunlight. 20F here with direct sun: wear a t-shirt and you won't be actually cold. Subtle things like my running shoes never getting stinky because they never get "wet with sweat". However, I have fairly weather resistant skin and hair. My wife's experience here has not been quite so positive, though some of that is likely caused by the extremely hard water where we live (fixed that this weekend). At altitude (we live at 6000') you need to get used to wearing sunglasses outdoors all the time unless you want cataracts much earlier than normal. The other thing to keep in mind in areas similar to the one where we live that nobody tells you (or if they do, you don't believe them): windy season. As the ground starts to warm up in the spring, every single day here for 5-6 weeks starts calm and then spends 6-8 hours of the day in hellacious wind storm. Things calm down in June (there can still be crazy winds, but not every day for weeks). It seriously sucks, and we are coming around to planning travel so that we leave the area for a good chunk of windy season. You also have to adapt your ideas of beauty. As Stegner put it: > Dutton describes a process of westernization of the perceptions that has had to happen before the West is beautiful to us. You have to get over the color green; you have to quit associating beauty with gardens and lawns; you have to get used to an inhuman scale; you have to understand geological time. https://bensonian.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/you-have-to-get-over-the-color-green-westernizing-the-perceptions/ https://bensonian.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/you-have-to-get-o... NM itself is ... interesting. Just 2 million people in the 5th biggest state by area. I keep telling myself that politics here is like Phila. city council, but spread out across a whole, large state. NM has more poverty and a less dynamic economy than it's neighbors. The upside is empty trails, and wonderfully friendly people.
kristjansson 5y ago
cf. something like 10-20k in property taxes and another 20-40k in state income tax in urban California for comparable values of modest and good…
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  But with California weather, foods, and terrain.
mcguire 5y ago
Your math works out! :-) The Lincoln county property tax rate is 1.80% (https://smartasset.com/taxes/kansas-property-tax-calculator); https://smartasset.com/taxes/kansas-property-tax-calculator)... the property tax on a $200,000 property would therefore be $3600/year. Kansas income taxes on $150,000 would be $8,093 (https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/kansas-state-taxes/ https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/kansas-state-taxes/). White county, TN, has a property tax rate of .52% (https://smartasset.com/taxes/tennessee-property-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/tennessee-property-tax-calculat...): $1040/year, and Tennessee doesn't have an income tax. Property in both is pretty comparable (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Lincoln-County_KS/type-single-family-home/price-120000-250000 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Lincoln-Co..., https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Sparta_TN/type-single-family-home/price-180000-250000 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Sparta_TN/...), 1,500 to 2,000 sq ft. Maybe a bit of an edge in Kansas. Sales tax in Lincoln county are 2 percentage points lower, but it is at least a hundred miles to a bigger city. Kansas kinda sucks.
- mcguire 5y ago
  P.s. Jackson county, AL: 0.33% property tax, 3.9% effective income tax rate, 1,700-2,200 sq ft.
- beerandt 5y ago
  >Kansas Surprising. 1) Where does the money go? Relative to other states? 2) No homestead exemptions? $75k reduction would get you to ~$2250, which still isn't cheap, especially with that income tax. >Sales tax ... 2 percentage points lower What are the actual rates?
  - mcguire 5y ago
    About 2: https://www.ksrevenue.gov/perstaxtypeshs.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/perstaxtypeshs.html Max $700. "Your total household income must be $36,300 or less." Also, "You were born before Jan. 1, 1965; OR You must have been totally and permanently disabled or blind during the entire year, regardless of your age; OR You must have had a dependent child living with you all of last year who was born before Jan. 1, 2020, and was under the age of 18 the entire year." Lincoln county sales tax: 8.5% Sparta, TN: 9.5% Whoops. I may have been looking at the state tax rates vs. the total sales tax rates. As for the first question, a hypothesis: KS is about twice the size of TN with about half the population; 14/km^2 vs 65/km^2. But for real numbers, I'm having a hard time finding comparables. And I'm having a hard time figuring out where TN's money comes from. TN has roughly twice the budget of KS ($38.6B vs $18.4B) but spends less per capita ($5695 vs $6320) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets). KS spends more of their budget on education; TN on Medicaid- (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-of-state-spending/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&selectedRows=%7B%22states%22:%7B%22kansas%22:%7B%7D,%22tennessee%22:%7B%7D%7D%7D&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-of-st...). In 2017, TN got 40% of its budget from the federales; KS, 25% (https://ballotpedia.org/Total_state_government_expenditures https://ballotpedia.org/Total_state_government_expenditures). TN gets roughly twice as much in total federal spending than KS (https://www.usaspending.gov/search/?hash=5c7be0443698b7e8ae2c2e5112a7f237 https://www.usaspending.gov/search/?hash=5c7be0443698b7e8ae2...).

toomuchtodo 5y ago

And with Tennessee, you can get relatively close to the smokey mountains national parks for a reasonable price for a house. You’re then a short hop to Asheville, there are multiple regional airports, and StarLink works there.

silisili 5y ago
Agree, but better act fast! Asheville already boomed, and Knoxville is mid-boom at the moment. What was 160ish k in 2019 is hitting the mid 3s today.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  Knoxville has a lot going for it too.
  - cbfrench 5y ago
    Ditto Chattanooga. Two great sleeper cities when Nashville is getting all the hype.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      My wife really liked Chattanooga when we were considering where to move. The downsides from my perspective: deathly humidity in the summer time, and according to the locals I asked, no food culture to speak of, particularly in terms of ingredients. Otherwise, pretty, nice size, great river ... we ended up near Santa Fe.
      - silisili 5y ago
        You're right about that. I lived in Knox for a year, and the humidity is worse than Florida in the summer. Curious where you came from, and how you're liking it? I've lived in high humidity my whole life, and decided to move somewhere drier this year - AZ or NM. Would love to hear your experience.
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Born in the UK. Graduate study in Israel & Germany. Moved to Seattle 1989, 7 years there. Moved to Philadelphia, 23 years there. Moved to near Santa Fe 3 years ago. I personally love the near absolute lack of humidity here near Santa Fe. It changes the impact of the cold, and the heat, especially when combined with direct sunlight. 20F here with direct sun: wear a t-shirt and you won't be actually cold. Subtle things like my running shoes never getting stinky because they never get "wet with sweat". However, I have fairly weather resistant skin and hair. My wife's experience here has not been quite so positive, though some of that is likely caused by the extremely hard water where we live (fixed that this weekend). At altitude (we live at 6000') you need to get used to wearing sunglasses outdoors all the time unless you want cataracts much earlier than normal. The other thing to keep in mind in areas similar to the one where we live that nobody tells you (or if they do, you don't believe them): windy season. As the ground starts to warm up in the spring, every single day here for 5-6 weeks starts calm and then spends 6-8 hours of the day in hellacious wind storm. Things calm down in June (there can still be crazy winds, but not every day for weeks). It seriously sucks, and we are coming around to planning travel so that we leave the area for a good chunk of windy season. You also have to adapt your ideas of beauty. As Stegner put it: > Dutton describes a process of westernization of the perceptions that has had to happen before the West is beautiful to us. You have to get over the color green; you have to quit associating beauty with gardens and lawns; you have to get used to an inhuman scale; you have to understand geological time. https://bensonian.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/you-have-to-get-over-the-color-green-westernizing-the-perceptions/ https://bensonian.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/you-have-to-get-o... NM itself is ... interesting. Just 2 million people in the 5th biggest state by area. I keep telling myself that politics here is like Phila. city council, but spread out across a whole, large state. NM has more poverty and a less dynamic economy than it's neighbors. The upside is empty trails, and wonderfully friendly people.

kristjansson 5y ago

cf. something like 10-20k in property taxes and another 20-40k in state income tax in urban California for comparable values of modest and good…

lotsofpulp 5y ago
But with California weather, foods, and terrain.

mcguire 5y ago

Your math works out! :-) The Lincoln county property tax rate is 1.80% (https://smartasset.com/taxes/kansas-property-tax-calculator); https://smartasset.com/taxes/kansas-property-tax-calculator)... the property tax on a $200,000 property would therefore be $3600/year. Kansas income taxes on $150,000 would be $8,093 (https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/kansas-state-taxes/ https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/kansas-state-taxes/). White county, TN, has a property tax rate of .52% (https://smartasset.com/taxes/tennessee-property-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/tennessee-property-tax-calculat...): $1040/year, and Tennessee doesn't have an income tax. Property in both is pretty comparable (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Lincoln-County_KS/type-single-family-home/price-120000-250000 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Lincoln-Co..., https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Sparta_TN/type-single-family-home/price-180000-250000 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Sparta_TN/...), 1,500 to 2,000 sq ft. Maybe a bit of an edge in Kansas. Sales tax in Lincoln county are 2 percentage points lower, but it is at least a hundred miles to a bigger city. Kansas kinda sucks.

mcguire 5y ago
P.s. Jackson county, AL: 0.33% property tax, 3.9% effective income tax rate, 1,700-2,200 sq ft.
beerandt 5y ago
>Kansas Surprising. 1) Where does the money go? Relative to other states? 2) No homestead exemptions? $75k reduction would get you to ~$2250, which still isn't cheap, especially with that income tax. >Sales tax ... 2 percentage points lower What are the actual rates?
- mcguire 5y ago
  About 2: https://www.ksrevenue.gov/perstaxtypeshs.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/perstaxtypeshs.html Max $700. "Your total household income must be $36,300 or less." Also, "You were born before Jan. 1, 1965; OR You must have been totally and permanently disabled or blind during the entire year, regardless of your age; OR You must have had a dependent child living with you all of last year who was born before Jan. 1, 2020, and was under the age of 18 the entire year." Lincoln county sales tax: 8.5% Sparta, TN: 9.5% Whoops. I may have been looking at the state tax rates vs. the total sales tax rates. As for the first question, a hypothesis: KS is about twice the size of TN with about half the population; 14/km^2 vs 65/km^2. But for real numbers, I'm having a hard time finding comparables. And I'm having a hard time figuring out where TN's money comes from. TN has roughly twice the budget of KS ($38.6B vs $18.4B) but spends less per capita ($5695 vs $6320) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets). KS spends more of their budget on education; TN on Medicaid- (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-of-state-spending/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&selectedRows=%7B%22states%22:%7B%22kansas%22:%7B%7D,%22tennessee%22:%7B%7D%7D%7D&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-of-st...). In 2017, TN got 40% of its budget from the federales; KS, 25% (https://ballotpedia.org/Total_state_government_expenditures https://ballotpedia.org/Total_state_government_expenditures). TN gets roughly twice as much in total federal spending than KS (https://www.usaspending.gov/search/?hash=5c7be0443698b7e8ae2c2e5112a7f237 https://www.usaspending.gov/search/?hash=5c7be0443698b7e8ae2...).