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About 80% of the top comments here are "this infringes on free speech".

josephcsible 5y ago
I think there's an important distinction between infringing on free speech and being anti-free speech, and that Young only fell into the latter. Now had Spotify caved, then a lot of people would call that the former. As another example, imagine a group of protesters arguing for the repeal of the Bill of Rights. Since that includes the First Amendment, their position is clearly anti-free speech, but they're not infringing on anyone's free speech by having their protest. (And in fact, if someone tried to ban that protest, they'd be the ones infringing on free speech.)
- sanderjd 5y ago
  His stance is not anti-free-speech at all. It is "I don't think Spotify should associate with this specific person and I don't want to associate with them if they do". It would not be anti-free-speech for me to refuse to go to a dinner party where I know they've also invited someone I don't want to associate with, or to tell the hosts why I don't want to be there.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Young's stance is more like "I don't think Spotify should associate with this specific person because he exercises his freedom of speech to say things that I disagree with, and I don't want to associate with them if they do". Not wanting to associate with Spotify isn't in and of itself anti-free speech, but it is when that's your reason why.
    - sanderjd 5y ago
      No his problem is pretty clearly with the content itself, not the meta-issue of his ability to express it. And it's totally fine to not want to associate with people you don't want to associate with or with people who associate with those people. We all do this picking and choosing of associations all the time; it's ordinary.
cloutchaser 5y ago
We're obviously talking about a lot of diverse comments but... Just because some people are saying it infringes on free speech (it could), or that it's censorship (which it's a call for), doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed. From where I'm standing, I'll say again, hardly anyone says Young shouldn't be able to do it. Even if it is a call for censorship.
denton-scratch 5y ago
> About 80% of the top comments here are "this infringes on free speech". Indeed, and I'm pretty astonished. Obviously Young himself isn't infringing anyone's freedom to speak. Maybe he is inviting Spotify to remove Rogan; I don't see that, but even if he is, that doesn't remove Rogan's freedom to speak. One could argue that he's called for a boycott. I don't see that either; but even if he has, that just amounts to inviting individuals to make informed choices about which services they patronize, and which they don't. I guess there's just a lot of HNers that like to listen to Young on Spotify, and are pissed off.
rhino369 5y ago
It's not a contradiction. Speech that infringes on free speech is allowed under freedom of speech. Young can say what he wants. But we can call him a censor for it. He can call Rogan an idiot and a misinformation peddler--and that isn't censorship. Saying spotify should ban his podcast is censorship.

I think there's an important distinction between infringing on free speech and being anti-free speech, and that Young only fell into the latter. Now had Spotify caved, then a lot of people would call that the former. As another example, imagine a group of protesters arguing for the repeal of the Bill of Rights. Since that includes the First Amendment, their position is clearly anti-free speech, but they're not infringing on anyone's free speech by having their protest. (And in fact, if someone tried to ban that protest, they'd be the ones infringing on free speech.)

sanderjd 5y ago
His stance is not anti-free-speech at all. It is "I don't think Spotify should associate with this specific person and I don't want to associate with them if they do". It would not be anti-free-speech for me to refuse to go to a dinner party where I know they've also invited someone I don't want to associate with, or to tell the hosts why I don't want to be there.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Young's stance is more like "I don't think Spotify should associate with this specific person because he exercises his freedom of speech to say things that I disagree with, and I don't want to associate with them if they do". Not wanting to associate with Spotify isn't in and of itself anti-free speech, but it is when that's your reason why.
  - sanderjd 5y ago
    No his problem is pretty clearly with the content itself, not the meta-issue of his ability to express it. And it's totally fine to not want to associate with people you don't want to associate with or with people who associate with those people. We all do this picking and choosing of associations all the time; it's ordinary.

cloutchaser 5y ago

We're obviously talking about a lot of diverse comments but... Just because some people are saying it infringes on free speech (it could), or that it's censorship (which it's a call for), doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed. From where I'm standing, I'll say again, hardly anyone says Young shouldn't be able to do it. Even if it is a call for censorship.

denton-scratch 5y ago

> About 80% of the top comments here are "this infringes on free speech". Indeed, and I'm pretty astonished. Obviously Young himself isn't infringing anyone's freedom to speak. Maybe he is inviting Spotify to remove Rogan; I don't see that, but even if he is, that doesn't remove Rogan's freedom to speak. One could argue that he's called for a boycott. I don't see that either; but even if he has, that just amounts to inviting individuals to make informed choices about which services they patronize, and which they don't. I guess there's just a lot of HNers that like to listen to Young on Spotify, and are pissed off.

rhino369 5y ago

It's not a contradiction. Speech that infringes on free speech is allowed under freedom of speech. Young can say what he wants. But we can call him a censor for it. He can call Rogan an idiot and a misinformation peddler--and that isn't censorship. Saying spotify should ban his podcast is censorship.