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It’s funny, because in a sense tech people and non tech people have the same problem. Non tech folks want to get closer to the tech and tech folks want to get c

It’s funny, because in a sense tech people and non tech people have the same problem. Non tech folks want to get closer to the tech and tech folks want to get closer to the business. Just like you can a non-technical person and not understand the tech, a technical person has the same problem of understanding the tech but not the underlying business decisions. I’ve actually been working on this at work. Figuring out the right level to bring people over to the other side. I want to introduce my non technical coworkers to the code so it doesn’t overwhelm them but I also want to expose my coders to the business side in a way where they won’t get overwhelmed

User23 5y ago
For me the issue with the business side isn’t that it’s overwhelming, it’s that I find it boring. I have the mental capacity and adequate hard and soft skills to do the work, but it’s not sustainable to do a good job at something that burns one out just thinking about it. In case it’s not crystal clear, I’m not saying it’s objectively boring work. Some people observably find it engaging and I’m glad they do.
Mezzie 5y ago
And if you do understand both, nobody believes you/they spend their time undermining you. The problem is that a lot of technical people won't listen to anybody who didn't work in their precise subfield for X years, and the non-technical people won't listen to someone without (for example) an MBA, even when that person is bridging a gap. Of course I'm not as good at coding as a developer who's done this full time for 2 decades or as good at business decisions at most C-suite people (or I'd be running my own business), but I've been doing web development for over 20 years, and I've managed a few projects + have studied how to run an organization at the graduate level. Most of the time when I notice things and bring them up, all it does is either get me more work or it's just ignored anyway. Part of it is that the tech and non-tech people don't understand one another, but another part is that they each think their way of thinking is the one best way.
ozim 5y ago
What about the people who don't want and don't care about the other side. I see business focused people who don't understand basic operations of a web browser - where most of the business is running via web apps... I see developers who don't want to attend any meetings because they would rather spend time coding and then if someone delivers a screenshot with red underlining that was supposed to well underline they implement literally what is on the screenshot... I would like to hire only people who want to "work with all to deliver value for the customers" but it is not easy to get only people like that.
- thesimon 5y ago
  I really enjoy working like that as a developer, but it's sometimes difficult to find companies working like that. The product owner is supposed to eliminate all developer/customer contact and know just the right solutions it seems like.

User23 5y ago

For me the issue with the business side isn’t that it’s overwhelming, it’s that I find it boring. I have the mental capacity and adequate hard and soft skills to do the work, but it’s not sustainable to do a good job at something that burns one out just thinking about it. In case it’s not crystal clear, I’m not saying it’s objectively boring work. Some people observably find it engaging and I’m glad they do.

Mezzie 5y ago

And if you do understand both, nobody believes you/they spend their time undermining you. The problem is that a lot of technical people won't listen to anybody who didn't work in their precise subfield for X years, and the non-technical people won't listen to someone without (for example) an MBA, even when that person is bridging a gap. Of course I'm not as good at coding as a developer who's done this full time for 2 decades or as good at business decisions at most C-suite people (or I'd be running my own business), but I've been doing web development for over 20 years, and I've managed a few projects + have studied how to run an organization at the graduate level. Most of the time when I notice things and bring them up, all it does is either get me more work or it's just ignored anyway. Part of it is that the tech and non-tech people don't understand one another, but another part is that they each think their way of thinking is the one best way.

ozim 5y ago

What about the people who don't want and don't care about the other side. I see business focused people who don't understand basic operations of a web browser - where most of the business is running via web apps... I see developers who don't want to attend any meetings because they would rather spend time coding and then if someone delivers a screenshot with red underlining that was supposed to well underline they implement literally what is on the screenshot... I would like to hire only people who want to "work with all to deliver value for the customers" but it is not easy to get only people like that.

thesimon 5y ago
I really enjoy working like that as a developer, but it's sometimes difficult to find companies working like that. The product owner is supposed to eliminate all developer/customer contact and know just the right solutions it seems like.