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"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." - Richard Feynman

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. . . . An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth. — Max Planck, Scientific autobiography, 1950, p. 33, 97 It means that it took several generations of doctors to reach a consensus around the fact that viruses are actually very dangerous and we can be reasonably sure that the Rogan's objections have already been presented and discarded as bullshit. More than one time. It also means that if Rogan, a man in his middle 50s, spreads disinformation on a platform where a large part of the audience is young, we risk that the future generation will be familiar with his bullshit theories. That's why he shouldn't be allowed to be a popular voice. Believing that science is always correct it's wrong, science gives us ranges, plausible certainties, risk evaluation strategies, but believing that people outside of science can disprove what people of science have studied and discussed for decades, it's idiotic.
- nailer 5y ago
  You were asked about the doctors and scientists on the Joe Rogan podcast. How are those doctors and scientists ‘outside science’?
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    simply put: one doctor's opinion is bullshit same as my opinions are bullshit. If a large number of doctors say X is true and Y is bullshit, if I think Y is true and X bullshit, I need the same number of doctors to agree with me to counter the argument.
    - nailer 5y ago
      You're acting like 'doctors' are a commodity. Researchers with their names on patents that are frequently published are worth more than a thousand GPs.
- scantis 5y ago
  That is beautiful horrific observation by one of my favorite scientists. You are right. Just have some lemma near some old proof. Still being knowledgable about science and understanding its method for finding truth is currently the best weapon against the snake oil salesmen and their buttery voices. I talk about science the method, not the group of old men grading papers. Maybe that is our misunderstanding. For you science is the scientific community, for me it is the method. One has a consensus, one clearly does not.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    I totally agree with you. Science is the method. The method is to put the burden of the proof on the humans that disagree with what the method has reached an agreement on. Because it's really hard to trick the method given a large enough community that disagree on the results. We are fallible, the method, at least, doesn't care about our feelings.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  Lobotomy's won the Nobel prize. The doctors that Rogan has on will be the ones to stand the test of time and the rest of the medical establishment will turn out to be wrong on this.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    that's exactly my point. Rogan's opinions are not to be taken seriously (and mine as well),unless they pass the test of time. But Rogan opposes to smth that has already passed the test of time. So the burden of the proof is on him.
    - edmcnulty101 5y ago
      Im not sure what you're talking about presently.

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. . . . An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth. — Max Planck, Scientific autobiography, 1950, p. 33, 97 It means that it took several generations of doctors to reach a consensus around the fact that viruses are actually very dangerous and we can be reasonably sure that the Rogan's objections have already been presented and discarded as bullshit. More than one time. It also means that if Rogan, a man in his middle 50s, spreads disinformation on a platform where a large part of the audience is young, we risk that the future generation will be familiar with his bullshit theories. That's why he shouldn't be allowed to be a popular voice. Believing that science is always correct it's wrong, science gives us ranges, plausible certainties, risk evaluation strategies, but believing that people outside of science can disprove what people of science have studied and discussed for decades, it's idiotic.

nailer 5y ago
You were asked about the doctors and scientists on the Joe Rogan podcast. How are those doctors and scientists ‘outside science’?
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  simply put: one doctor's opinion is bullshit same as my opinions are bullshit. If a large number of doctors say X is true and Y is bullshit, if I think Y is true and X bullshit, I need the same number of doctors to agree with me to counter the argument.
  - nailer 5y ago
    You're acting like 'doctors' are a commodity. Researchers with their names on patents that are frequently published are worth more than a thousand GPs.
scantis 5y ago
That is beautiful horrific observation by one of my favorite scientists. You are right. Just have some lemma near some old proof. Still being knowledgable about science and understanding its method for finding truth is currently the best weapon against the snake oil salesmen and their buttery voices. I talk about science the method, not the group of old men grading papers. Maybe that is our misunderstanding. For you science is the scientific community, for me it is the method. One has a consensus, one clearly does not.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  I totally agree with you. Science is the method. The method is to put the burden of the proof on the humans that disagree with what the method has reached an agreement on. Because it's really hard to trick the method given a large enough community that disagree on the results. We are fallible, the method, at least, doesn't care about our feelings.
edmcnulty101 5y ago
Lobotomy's won the Nobel prize. The doctors that Rogan has on will be the ones to stand the test of time and the rest of the medical establishment will turn out to be wrong on this.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  that's exactly my point. Rogan's opinions are not to be taken seriously (and mine as well),unless they pass the test of time. But Rogan opposes to smth that has already passed the test of time. So the burden of the proof is on him.
  - edmcnulty101 5y ago
    Im not sure what you're talking about presently.