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I thought the title was a great pun, but didn't see Excel mentioned in the article. The article even mentioned low-code/no-code, which Excel - and offspring lik

I thought the title was a great pun, but didn't see Excel mentioned in the article. The article even mentioned low-code/no-code, which Excel - and offspring like Google Sheets - IMO is the original and still best tool in that space.

sevensor 5y ago
I came to the comments section planning to say the same thing. We used to throw around the term "computer literacy." It meant being able to use a word processor like WordPerfect and a spreadsheet like Lotus 1-2-3, and it meant understanding enough about file storage that you knew when it was OK to eject your floppy. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. Basic competence with word processors and spreadsheets is no longer assumed. It's not unusual to meet a young person who, despite having been immersed in technology since birth, is unaware that Chromebooks support screenshotting and copy-paste between apps. (Source: spouse is a teacher whose students not-infrequently take pictures of the screen with their phones and email themselves the pictures to paste into documents.) There's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be had, just gaining what we used to regard as basic computer literacy. (I would not recommend learning how to use floppy disks. That information is of almost no use to the layperson.)
- doopy1 5y ago
  To piggyback off of this, I kind of have a similar issue with coding bootcamps. They pump out novice programmers that are lacking basic tech literacy. Sure, these folks learned how to write a CRUD app, but you hire them and they can't setup SSH without massive handholding, etc.
  - wiseleo 5y ago
    Asking a software engineer to be aware of environment setup intricacies does not make sense. Once you hold their hands once by writing a comprehensive document, they will learn and not guess how you want things to be done. I write a lot of such documents. :)
    - unmole 5y ago
      > Asking a software engineer to be aware of environment setup intricacies does not make sense. But expecting a software engineer to figure things out without extensive handholding is perfectly reasonable.
- telxosser 5y ago
  Seems pretty obvious to me that we are going backwards. I always worried about this stage of my life as a non-software engineer that I would get lapped by the younger generation who had been immersed in technology since birth. Smart phone immersion though not only seems useless but counter productive. No computer skills or attention span. At least I got a ton of computer skills while my attention span was shortened. Is this going to change with Generation Covid? That seems like an easy bet no.
  - space_fountain 5y ago
    Remember many more people now use computers. That does mean that some of them aren’t as familiar with them, but a lot of that is just that everyone uses them a bit at least
- auxym 5y ago
  I hang out on reddit subs for things like mechanical engineering, CAD, FEA, electronics and PCB design. It's not uncommon for people to be asking for help with their software (solidworks, fusion, abaqus, kicad, altium, etc) and posting a picture of their screen taking with a phone, apparently unaware of the "screenshot" feature of their OS. Often these are ME/EE students. It's somewhat mind boggling.
  - brewdad 5y ago
    Admittedly, as someone who takes screen shots at least weekly, I have taken a photo of my screen simply because it's faster and easier than the alternative. A. On my computer, browse to the site I'm already using on my phone. Find the thread I was reading and the comment I wish to respond to, if applicable. Post the screnshot. Or B, take a screenshot, upload it somewhere that I can access on my phone. Download it to my phone. Then share it on my phone through whatever means my OS makes available.
  - drdec 5y ago
    That seems perfectly reasonable to me depending on the specifics. If you already have reddit on your phone but not on the computer, then it is much more convenient just to take a pic and post it.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    I'm a software developer and I'm one of these people. It's because I don't use the screenshot tool often enough to know the shortcut key or how to open it. I can't remember. It's faster to use the phone as the UI to access the camera is 10x more intuitive. If I care enough to post something nicer I'll google how to do it.
    - lovich 5y ago
      CMD+shift+5 on Mac to open up the screenshot tool Snip app on windows which you can pull up by hitting the windows key and typing the name Both allow for easy cropping of a screen, and snip has a built in marker for drawing on the screenshot
selimthegrim 5y ago
For engineers Blockpad (https://blockpad.net https://blockpad.net) is making a good case for itself as an Excel replacement. I believe they will be adding Excel import capability within the month and already have it for common CAD software.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
Exactly. Excel occupies that magical space where the users aren’t really thinking about coding, they are thinking about solving their business problems (and don’t even realize they are coding)
- bdcravens 5y ago
  During the pandemic, my employer added an entirely new business offering using Excel. It's a beautiful monster, and will eventually be ported to our main codebase, but he was able to build an income generator when we desperately needed it in a fraction of the time any "agile process" could have.
- User23 5y ago
  Access and QuickBase also are good examples.
btown 5y ago
I will add that the next step beyond this is relational/referential thinking. The idea that you can have all the low-level events or transactions in your system, bring in (join/lookup) data from their parent entities without duplicating data entry, and then aggregate in different ways… whether you use Excel with VLOOKUP or Airtable or SQL, you can design user products and analytics projects. Airtable in particular is an amazing no-code way to experiment with database design and wrangle a data entry project in a way that can easily be imported into a relational database in a highly normalized way. If you know these things and are curious about the world, it’s a quick path to being able to lead a technical project. Add a skill like design or domain knowledge and to the right team you’re suddenly a unicorn even if you’ve never officially typed a line of Python or JS.
- PebblesRox 5y ago
  I'm really thankful to my dad (a database analyst) for sitting me down one time when I was home on break from college to give me a basic overview of how relational databases work. I eventually did more reading on my own, but just knowing about this general concept made it so I could see when I had a situation where it would be useful. My first job was in an architect's office and I had a project that involved tracking details of a hundred different doors and windows of a historic building, so I used Access to create a database and saved so much time keeping track of everything! In my current position as the combined accounting/HR department of a small company, I've been able to build a lot of tools using Airtable that help us track deals and commissions in a less-manual way, allowing us to scale the team a lot faster than we would have been able to otherwise. Pipedream is another great tool because it has very granular coverage of the whole spectrum from no-code to real-code. At every step of the learning journey, there's an opportunity to get a little more sophisticated, but the whole time I'm also able to be productive in solving the business problems in front of me. As someone who aspires to become a developer someday, it's really cool to be submitting PRs as part of my not-officially-technical day job :) https://pipedream.com/ https://pipedream.com/
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Likewise I am forever grateful to my dad for the same thing. He had me learn relational dbs and SQL 20+ years ago and am still benefittinng greatly from that. Unfortunately, beside SQL almost everything has seen drastic changes since then.

sevensor 5y ago

I came to the comments section planning to say the same thing. We used to throw around the term "computer literacy." It meant being able to use a word processor like WordPerfect and a spreadsheet like Lotus 1-2-3, and it meant understanding enough about file storage that you knew when it was OK to eject your floppy. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. Basic competence with word processors and spreadsheets is no longer assumed. It's not unusual to meet a young person who, despite having been immersed in technology since birth, is unaware that Chromebooks support screenshotting and copy-paste between apps. (Source: spouse is a teacher whose students not-infrequently take pictures of the screen with their phones and email themselves the pictures to paste into documents.) There's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be had, just gaining what we used to regard as basic computer literacy. (I would not recommend learning how to use floppy disks. That information is of almost no use to the layperson.)

doopy1 5y ago
To piggyback off of this, I kind of have a similar issue with coding bootcamps. They pump out novice programmers that are lacking basic tech literacy. Sure, these folks learned how to write a CRUD app, but you hire them and they can't setup SSH without massive handholding, etc.
- wiseleo 5y ago
  Asking a software engineer to be aware of environment setup intricacies does not make sense. Once you hold their hands once by writing a comprehensive document, they will learn and not guess how you want things to be done. I write a lot of such documents. :)
  - unmole 5y ago
    > Asking a software engineer to be aware of environment setup intricacies does not make sense. But expecting a software engineer to figure things out without extensive handholding is perfectly reasonable.
telxosser 5y ago
Seems pretty obvious to me that we are going backwards. I always worried about this stage of my life as a non-software engineer that I would get lapped by the younger generation who had been immersed in technology since birth. Smart phone immersion though not only seems useless but counter productive. No computer skills or attention span. At least I got a ton of computer skills while my attention span was shortened. Is this going to change with Generation Covid? That seems like an easy bet no.
- space_fountain 5y ago
  Remember many more people now use computers. That does mean that some of them aren’t as familiar with them, but a lot of that is just that everyone uses them a bit at least
auxym 5y ago
I hang out on reddit subs for things like mechanical engineering, CAD, FEA, electronics and PCB design. It's not uncommon for people to be asking for help with their software (solidworks, fusion, abaqus, kicad, altium, etc) and posting a picture of their screen taking with a phone, apparently unaware of the "screenshot" feature of their OS. Often these are ME/EE students. It's somewhat mind boggling.
- brewdad 5y ago
  Admittedly, as someone who takes screen shots at least weekly, I have taken a photo of my screen simply because it's faster and easier than the alternative. A. On my computer, browse to the site I'm already using on my phone. Find the thread I was reading and the comment I wish to respond to, if applicable. Post the screnshot. Or B, take a screenshot, upload it somewhere that I can access on my phone. Download it to my phone. Then share it on my phone through whatever means my OS makes available.
- drdec 5y ago
  That seems perfectly reasonable to me depending on the specifics. If you already have reddit on your phone but not on the computer, then it is much more convenient just to take a pic and post it.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  I'm a software developer and I'm one of these people. It's because I don't use the screenshot tool often enough to know the shortcut key or how to open it. I can't remember. It's faster to use the phone as the UI to access the camera is 10x more intuitive. If I care enough to post something nicer I'll google how to do it.
  - lovich 5y ago
    CMD+shift+5 on Mac to open up the screenshot tool Snip app on windows which you can pull up by hitting the windows key and typing the name Both allow for easy cropping of a screen, and snip has a built in marker for drawing on the screenshot

selimthegrim 5y ago

For engineers Blockpad (https://blockpad.net https://blockpad.net) is making a good case for itself as an Excel replacement. I believe they will be adding Excel import capability within the month and already have it for common CAD software.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

Exactly. Excel occupies that magical space where the users aren’t really thinking about coding, they are thinking about solving their business problems (and don’t even realize they are coding)

bdcravens 5y ago
During the pandemic, my employer added an entirely new business offering using Excel. It's a beautiful monster, and will eventually be ported to our main codebase, but he was able to build an income generator when we desperately needed it in a fraction of the time any "agile process" could have.
User23 5y ago
Access and QuickBase also are good examples.

btown 5y ago

I will add that the next step beyond this is relational/referential thinking. The idea that you can have all the low-level events or transactions in your system, bring in (join/lookup) data from their parent entities without duplicating data entry, and then aggregate in different ways… whether you use Excel with VLOOKUP or Airtable or SQL, you can design user products and analytics projects. Airtable in particular is an amazing no-code way to experiment with database design and wrangle a data entry project in a way that can easily be imported into a relational database in a highly normalized way. If you know these things and are curious about the world, it’s a quick path to being able to lead a technical project. Add a skill like design or domain knowledge and to the right team you’re suddenly a unicorn even if you’ve never officially typed a line of Python or JS.

PebblesRox 5y ago
I'm really thankful to my dad (a database analyst) for sitting me down one time when I was home on break from college to give me a basic overview of how relational databases work. I eventually did more reading on my own, but just knowing about this general concept made it so I could see when I had a situation where it would be useful. My first job was in an architect's office and I had a project that involved tracking details of a hundred different doors and windows of a historic building, so I used Access to create a database and saved so much time keeping track of everything! In my current position as the combined accounting/HR department of a small company, I've been able to build a lot of tools using Airtable that help us track deals and commissions in a less-manual way, allowing us to scale the team a lot faster than we would have been able to otherwise. Pipedream is another great tool because it has very granular coverage of the whole spectrum from no-code to real-code. At every step of the learning journey, there's an opportunity to get a little more sophisticated, but the whole time I'm also able to be productive in solving the business problems in front of me. As someone who aspires to become a developer someday, it's really cool to be submitting PRs as part of my not-officially-technical day job :) https://pipedream.com/ https://pipedream.com/
- tartoran 5y ago
  Likewise I am forever grateful to my dad for the same thing. He had me learn relational dbs and SQL 20+ years ago and am still benefittinng greatly from that. Unfortunately, beside SQL almost everything has seen drastic changes since then.