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But Id be living in Germany and not where I want to live. I hate these numerical comparison between countries. Don’t I already know most of these facts? Aren't

But Id be living in Germany and not where I want to live. I hate these numerical comparison between countries. Don’t I already know most of these facts? Aren't they really comparisons at the margins (rare event vs. rarer event)? How about other considerations like some people like to live in a country where you can easily own a gun, homeschool your kid, or say whatever you want without fearing for your liberty (only your job)? Germans would rather not have these things, and thats cool, for them.

joenathanone 5y ago
>where you can easily own a gun, homeschool your kid, or say whatever you want without fearing for your liberty (only your job)? Wow, these are the most important things to you? Sounds pretty dystopian.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Not at all. These are the things Germans get hung on about the US. What I like about America are Americans. Especially middle America. They’re salt of the Earth. I grew up in Europe, and Europeans are, not all mind you, cynical and bitter people. Its so weird to move to America and having complete strangers salute you, even strike a conversation with you. Thats why I love this country. Now, Europeans and europhiles obsess over guns, schools and free speech. They can shove it. We like our society the way it is. Otherwise, to live in an uglier version of Europe (European cities are beautiful), I would have stayed… in Europe!
- pessimizer 5y ago
  People in the US are obsessed with like 5 wedge issues and conspiracy fantasies. They will gladly give up healthcare as long as their enemies have to give it up, too.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    “ They will gladly give up healthcare as long as their enemies have to give it up, too.” Ive never met an American who didn’t want health care so his neighbor wouldn't have it. Instead I find Americans extremely curious in how healthcare is done elsewhere since they keep asking me about health care wherever Ive lived. To Republicans I tell them American health care isn't that great (its terrible) and elsewhere’s not that bad, even quite good. To Democrats I tell them the problems others have America doesn't, and I remind them that “greedy” America spends more public money per capita on healthcare than almost any other country in the world. Americans are far more reasonable than they’re given credit for.
- jdthedisciple 5y ago
  Not sure what owning a gun (for self defense as crime is a reality), homeschooling your kids (so you can teach them your values instead of leaving that to the state whose values are in its own interest rather than your kids') and freedom of speech (selfexplanatory) have to do with dystopia ... ? Sounds pretty utopic in my book.
- dannyw 5y ago
  Having lived in China, I definitely value the ability to say whatever I want without fearing I would disappear. Having been the victim of a home robbery, I might like to have a gun, although I can't say I like what it means on a societal level.
danparsonson 5y ago
Liking your country doesn't have to mean liking everything about it, and it doesn't have to mean not wanting to improve key quality of life metrics, which appears to be what this site is talking about. In fact, I would argue that thinking critically about areas where improvements can be made and pushing for those changes makes you more patriotic, not less. >... some people like to live in a country where you can... say whatever you want without fearing for your liberty... Germans would rather not have these things... I'm pretty sure Germany has roughly equivalent freedom of speech protection to the US.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  “Liking […] makes you more patriotic, not less“ Agreed that a patriot criticizes his country (btw, Im Western European, not American. Yet) Chesterton wrote: “My country, right or wrong,’ is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, ‘My mother, drunk or sober.” And I agree. Where I disagree is these metrics are that important, or even relevant. Especially since they are differentials of small numbers (however more likely I am to get shot at in the US compared to Germany its still a very rare event. Nor do I need to be told about Germany to know that there is poverty in the US. Instead, let’s criticize America on its own. There’s plenty of material, “ I'm pretty sure Germany has roughly equivalent freedom of speech protection to the US. ” No country has the legal speech protections the US has. No one is even in the same league. Thats why speech control is outsourced to private entities. The obvious example of German restrictions: try buying Mien Kampf or debating the veracity of the Holocaust. Or playing the original Wolfenstein with the real artwork in it. We all agree here (I hope!) that ppl arguing against the veracity of the Holocaust are factually wrong, that Mein Kampf is horrendous; but I don’t want to live in a country that imposes that on me. Germans are cool with that. Germans recognize that they need these restrictions placed upon them. Thats the beauty of nation states - nations can impose their own rules on themselves.
  - danparsonson 5y ago
    > ...The obvious example of German restrictions... You're right that this is an obvious example, in fact I would say that it's too obvious and doesn't really make your point for you. Of course any right-thinking nation that had committed vast and terrible atrocities during a major conflict could be reasonably expected to try to suppress the kind of rhetoric that led to those things happening in the first place. I don't see that as a freedom of speech issue - rather it underscores the point that freedom of speech does not equate to the right to incite violence or cause harm. Or is this the point that you're making? That a modern Hitler could easily come to power in the US and that this is somehow desirable? I realise I'm being somewhat hyperbolic but if protection of the right to incite violence or cause harm is 'the league' that the US operates in, then I don't understand why any sane person would want that.
quickthrower2 5y ago
The OP feels like a show HN type of submission to me. Its a din toy not to be taken too seriously

joenathanone 5y ago

>where you can easily own a gun, homeschool your kid, or say whatever you want without fearing for your liberty (only your job)? Wow, these are the most important things to you? Sounds pretty dystopian.

tagoregrtst 5y ago
Not at all. These are the things Germans get hung on about the US. What I like about America are Americans. Especially middle America. They’re salt of the Earth. I grew up in Europe, and Europeans are, not all mind you, cynical and bitter people. Its so weird to move to America and having complete strangers salute you, even strike a conversation with you. Thats why I love this country. Now, Europeans and europhiles obsess over guns, schools and free speech. They can shove it. We like our society the way it is. Otherwise, to live in an uglier version of Europe (European cities are beautiful), I would have stayed… in Europe!
pessimizer 5y ago
People in the US are obsessed with like 5 wedge issues and conspiracy fantasies. They will gladly give up healthcare as long as their enemies have to give it up, too.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  “ They will gladly give up healthcare as long as their enemies have to give it up, too.” Ive never met an American who didn’t want health care so his neighbor wouldn't have it. Instead I find Americans extremely curious in how healthcare is done elsewhere since they keep asking me about health care wherever Ive lived. To Republicans I tell them American health care isn't that great (its terrible) and elsewhere’s not that bad, even quite good. To Democrats I tell them the problems others have America doesn't, and I remind them that “greedy” America spends more public money per capita on healthcare than almost any other country in the world. Americans are far more reasonable than they’re given credit for.
jdthedisciple 5y ago
Not sure what owning a gun (for self defense as crime is a reality), homeschooling your kids (so you can teach them your values instead of leaving that to the state whose values are in its own interest rather than your kids') and freedom of speech (selfexplanatory) have to do with dystopia ... ? Sounds pretty utopic in my book.
dannyw 5y ago
Having lived in China, I definitely value the ability to say whatever I want without fearing I would disappear. Having been the victim of a home robbery, I might like to have a gun, although I can't say I like what it means on a societal level.

danparsonson 5y ago

Liking your country doesn't have to mean liking everything about it, and it doesn't have to mean not wanting to improve key quality of life metrics, which appears to be what this site is talking about. In fact, I would argue that thinking critically about areas where improvements can be made and pushing for those changes makes you more patriotic, not less. >... some people like to live in a country where you can... say whatever you want without fearing for your liberty... Germans would rather not have these things... I'm pretty sure Germany has roughly equivalent freedom of speech protection to the US.

tagoregrtst 5y ago
“Liking […] makes you more patriotic, not less“ Agreed that a patriot criticizes his country (btw, Im Western European, not American. Yet) Chesterton wrote: “My country, right or wrong,’ is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, ‘My mother, drunk or sober.” And I agree. Where I disagree is these metrics are that important, or even relevant. Especially since they are differentials of small numbers (however more likely I am to get shot at in the US compared to Germany its still a very rare event. Nor do I need to be told about Germany to know that there is poverty in the US. Instead, let’s criticize America on its own. There’s plenty of material, “ I'm pretty sure Germany has roughly equivalent freedom of speech protection to the US. ” No country has the legal speech protections the US has. No one is even in the same league. Thats why speech control is outsourced to private entities. The obvious example of German restrictions: try buying Mien Kampf or debating the veracity of the Holocaust. Or playing the original Wolfenstein with the real artwork in it. We all agree here (I hope!) that ppl arguing against the veracity of the Holocaust are factually wrong, that Mein Kampf is horrendous; but I don’t want to live in a country that imposes that on me. Germans are cool with that. Germans recognize that they need these restrictions placed upon them. Thats the beauty of nation states - nations can impose their own rules on themselves.
- danparsonson 5y ago
  > ...The obvious example of German restrictions... You're right that this is an obvious example, in fact I would say that it's too obvious and doesn't really make your point for you. Of course any right-thinking nation that had committed vast and terrible atrocities during a major conflict could be reasonably expected to try to suppress the kind of rhetoric that led to those things happening in the first place. I don't see that as a freedom of speech issue - rather it underscores the point that freedom of speech does not equate to the right to incite violence or cause harm. Or is this the point that you're making? That a modern Hitler could easily come to power in the US and that this is somehow desirable? I realise I'm being somewhat hyperbolic but if protection of the right to incite violence or cause harm is 'the league' that the US operates in, then I don't understand why any sane person would want that.

quickthrower2 5y ago

The OP feels like a show HN type of submission to me. Its a din toy not to be taken too seriously