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One downside to this type of Christmas lights is that these design parameters — i.e., make it possible to manufacture feature-rich novelties with a minimum of w

One downside to this type of Christmas lights is that these design parameters — i.e., make it possible to manufacture feature-rich novelties with a minimum of wiring and changes to the assembly line — result in a product that has no user-serviceable parts: when a few LEDs die, the whole product should be thrown out. I say 'should' not because I think so, but because this is literally what is written on the labels affixed to many such products. We went from lights featuring incandescent light bulbs which came with a few spares in the box (anyone could replace those), to LED lights with a few spares (finicky to replace, but doable), to almost exclusively fixed-in-place LED lights without replacements and labels attached that tell the user to throw the chain out when lights break. And now more and more complexity with integrated ICs. Only those of us with a soldering iron can salvage some of them, and this new category seems like it might not be repairable at all (excepting the really clever EE folk like the author). Environmentally speaking, the increased complexity and focus on ease of manufacturing of such products seems to reduce their lifespan as well, with repairability already at a minimum.

spookthesunset 5y ago
Don't forget those old incandescent strings could draw up to 100 watts each! > And now more and more complexity with integrated ICs. I dunno. Which is more likely to fail? The older electromechanical "blinkers" they used or a solid state IC? I do get it though. Society is addicted to disposable things. But I'm not sure the problem is these things being non-user-servicable. When these things go, they go... Usually the cabling gets fucked on them long before the LED's.
deleted 5y ago
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IIAOPSW 5y ago
This is all true, but people voted for it with their wallets. At all levels, people understood that when their electronics break they would be paying for it again, making the ownership of the product more like renting with recurring payments. People understood the term "planned obsolescence". But they saw the cheap shinny blinky lights and decided they wanted it. The consumer is far more guilty than the company that gave them what they wanted.
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
  I don't think people understand the trades they're making. They see that one offering seems to do approximately the same stuff as another one, but it only costs half as much, and don't understand that the cheaper offering is one one millionth as fixable as the more expensive one. By the time it fails, they forgot the circumstances under which they bought it, so they may never connect cause and effect.
  - reader_x 5y ago
    As a consumer, I find string light packaging almost useless to estimate (1) lifespan until it breaks, or (2) possibility I can repair it when it does —therefore I hesitate to spend more than I have to on the theory that at any price I’m lucky if string lasts more than 2-3 seasons.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Given the lack of wage increases in many parts of the world perhaps the consumers, as a whole, aren't buying the better stuff because this is all they can afford.
- convolvatron 5y ago
  if I have a choice between a $10 X and a $20 Y, is it necessarily the case that Y will be a better product than X, last longer than X, and/or result in more wages being paid to the workers that made Y?
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  Aside from the points noted by other commenters about this being a choice most consumers cannot reasonably be expected to make, the notion that there is choice at all is simply false. Almost all Christmas lights sold in shops last year were of the current generation of fixed LED light strings sold in a plastic tub. The year before these were sold mostly in cardboard packages. For the basis indoor Christmas tree light product, this accounts for 95% of the product available, and almost all of the offering in physical stores¹. There's no reasonable chance of voting with your wallet against those numbers. Sure, I might be able to get some fancy hand-crafted Swedish Christmas lights with a ten year replacement part availability guarantee on some website, and who knows, perhaps a very effective word-of-mouth campaign will make them quite successful! — and still not make a dent in the global market. Realistically, it won't have any measurable impact in the greater scheme of things. This product is driven by sellers and manufacturers going for the absolute bottom in price because it is technologically feasible, externalities (like the environmental impact) are not part of the cost, and most consumers have plenty of other worries and simply crave a bit of Christmas cheer. 1: Here in the Netherlands, although likely globally applicable.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> result in a product that has no user-serviceable parts You seem to think this is a step backward? If you remember old lights you had bulbs that regularly blew, and the bulbs had to be thrown away and replaced. If you couldn't find compatible new bublbs you had to throw the whole thing away. The LEDs are not replaceable... but they hardly ever break either. The LED lights product lasts longer, and doesn't consume bulbs. Strictly better, isn't it?
- jhoechtl 5y ago
  > The LED lights product lasts longer Not my experience. My living room lighting already blew up two times and no, it wasn't the transformer which would be easy to replace. > and doesn't consume bulbs. Instead I have to throw away the whole thing with all its coper inside. > Strictly better, isn't it? Not in my books
  - sbcd 5y ago
    This is just anecdote versus anecdote, but I've never had to replace a LED because of them blowing out. Just recently, I replaced a LED that has been turned on for 24 hours a day every day for a whole 5 years, and it was still working. You may ask, why replace it then? well, high quality LED bulbs might not blow up, but they lose brightness over time. Still, I'd say 5 years of mileage for a light has is never turned off is a solid return on investment, particularly when considering how little energy they consume compared to previous light bulb technologies. The same thing also happens with the LED strips within monitors, monitors get replaced when they become too dark. I would be suspicious about the quality of the electricity in the place you live or work at when you see this stuff break at too high of a frequency. Not directly related to LEDs, but somehow I had electronics like computers or just plain old regular incandescent light bulbs break far more often in a house I used to live in, and I used to blame bad luck with the devices I bought, until I moved into another apartment and things actually started to have acceptable life expectancy.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    The old product was designed to use consumables even if it was functioning correctly!
deleted 5y ago
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spookthesunset 5y ago

Don't forget those old incandescent strings could draw up to 100 watts each! > And now more and more complexity with integrated ICs. I dunno. Which is more likely to fail? The older electromechanical "blinkers" they used or a solid state IC? I do get it though. Society is addicted to disposable things. But I'm not sure the problem is these things being non-user-servicable. When these things go, they go... Usually the cabling gets fucked on them long before the LED's.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

IIAOPSW 5y ago

This is all true, but people voted for it with their wallets. At all levels, people understood that when their electronics break they would be paying for it again, making the ownership of the product more like renting with recurring payments. People understood the term "planned obsolescence". But they saw the cheap shinny blinky lights and decided they wanted it. The consumer is far more guilty than the company that gave them what they wanted.

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
I don't think people understand the trades they're making. They see that one offering seems to do approximately the same stuff as another one, but it only costs half as much, and don't understand that the cheaper offering is one one millionth as fixable as the more expensive one. By the time it fails, they forgot the circumstances under which they bought it, so they may never connect cause and effect.
- reader_x 5y ago
  As a consumer, I find string light packaging almost useless to estimate (1) lifespan until it breaks, or (2) possibility I can repair it when it does —therefore I hesitate to spend more than I have to on the theory that at any price I’m lucky if string lasts more than 2-3 seasons.
JaimeThompson 5y ago
Given the lack of wage increases in many parts of the world perhaps the consumers, as a whole, aren't buying the better stuff because this is all they can afford.
convolvatron 5y ago
if I have a choice between a $10 X and a $20 Y, is it necessarily the case that Y will be a better product than X, last longer than X, and/or result in more wages being paid to the workers that made Y?
Freak_NL 5y ago
Aside from the points noted by other commenters about this being a choice most consumers cannot reasonably be expected to make, the notion that there is choice at all is simply false. Almost all Christmas lights sold in shops last year were of the current generation of fixed LED light strings sold in a plastic tub. The year before these were sold mostly in cardboard packages. For the basis indoor Christmas tree light product, this accounts for 95% of the product available, and almost all of the offering in physical stores¹. There's no reasonable chance of voting with your wallet against those numbers. Sure, I might be able to get some fancy hand-crafted Swedish Christmas lights with a ten year replacement part availability guarantee on some website, and who knows, perhaps a very effective word-of-mouth campaign will make them quite successful! — and still not make a dent in the global market. Realistically, it won't have any measurable impact in the greater scheme of things. This product is driven by sellers and manufacturers going for the absolute bottom in price because it is technologically feasible, externalities (like the environmental impact) are not part of the cost, and most consumers have plenty of other worries and simply crave a bit of Christmas cheer. 1: Here in the Netherlands, although likely globally applicable.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> result in a product that has no user-serviceable parts You seem to think this is a step backward? If you remember old lights you had bulbs that regularly blew, and the bulbs had to be thrown away and replaced. If you couldn't find compatible new bublbs you had to throw the whole thing away. The LEDs are not replaceable... but they hardly ever break either. The LED lights product lasts longer, and doesn't consume bulbs. Strictly better, isn't it?

jhoechtl 5y ago
> The LED lights product lasts longer Not my experience. My living room lighting already blew up two times and no, it wasn't the transformer which would be easy to replace. > and doesn't consume bulbs. Instead I have to throw away the whole thing with all its coper inside. > Strictly better, isn't it? Not in my books
- sbcd 5y ago
  This is just anecdote versus anecdote, but I've never had to replace a LED because of them blowing out. Just recently, I replaced a LED that has been turned on for 24 hours a day every day for a whole 5 years, and it was still working. You may ask, why replace it then? well, high quality LED bulbs might not blow up, but they lose brightness over time. Still, I'd say 5 years of mileage for a light has is never turned off is a solid return on investment, particularly when considering how little energy they consume compared to previous light bulb technologies. The same thing also happens with the LED strips within monitors, monitors get replaced when they become too dark. I would be suspicious about the quality of the electricity in the place you live or work at when you see this stuff break at too high of a frequency. Not directly related to LEDs, but somehow I had electronics like computers or just plain old regular incandescent light bulbs break far more often in a house I used to live in, and I used to blame bad luck with the devices I bought, until I moved into another apartment and things actually started to have acceptable life expectancy.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  The old product was designed to use consumables even if it was functioning correctly!

deleted 5y ago

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