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Your claim that the internet was noticable changing the world in 1995 is not accurate at all. For example, if you look at the history of Elon's Zip2, the succe

Your claim that the internet was noticable changing the world in 1995 is not accurate at all. For example, if you look at the history of Elon's Zip2, the success of an online yellow pages wasn't obvious. Quote itself: "“At that point, very few people were in the internet [business], so it was really a question of, ‘Is the internet going to succeed?’ Which we were huge believers in, and these guys were not.” " https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/elon-musk-pitched-the-head-of-yellow-pages-before-the-internet-boom.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/elon-musk-pitched-the-head-o... So basically in 1995, you had a lot of believers and non-believers. Exactly what crypto is today.

MattPalmer1086 5y ago
In 1995, I don't recall a lot of people actively against the internet. It's true that most businesses didn't believe it was relevant to them.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  In 1995, I didn't know anybody who had internet.
  - MattPalmer1086 5y ago
    I had access at work, but not at home.
- kkielhofner 5y ago
  Look at the WHOIS registration dates for the internet domains of the Fortune 500 in 1996. Almost all businesses knew within a few years that it was valuable to them. Go on the Wayback Machine (starts in '96) and check out the various websites for General Electric, Toyota, GM, you name it. They were there. Here's a taste from the Fortune 500[1] in 1996: GM: gm.com - 1992-01-16T00:00:00Z Ford: ford.com - 1988-09-01T00:00:00Z Exxon Mobile: exxon.com - 1991-01-03T05:00:00Z Wal-Mart: walmart.com - 1995-02-23T00:00:00Z AT&T: att.net (among others) - 1993-12-13T00:00:00Z General Electric: ge.com - 1986-08-05T00:00:00Z Mobil: mobil.com - 1991-02-01T05:00:00+0000 Chrysler: chrysler.com - 1993-06-16T00:00:00Z Altria Group: 2000-03-14T21:05:01Z So there you have it - 9/10 of the most valuable companies in the world had a domain name and website by 1995 (the only one missing being a tobacco giant). I don't think I would say "most businesses didn't believe it was relevant to them". [1] https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/full/1996/ https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_arc...
  - koonsolo 5y ago
    Look at all the big companies accepting crypto in 2022: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ In 25 years, we can have a discussion of "Look it was obvious, all these big companies were accepting crypto in 2022". Edit: my point is not that crypto succcess is obvious, my point is that internet success wasn't obvious.
  - MattPalmer1086 5y ago
    Interesting, but big companies aren't most companies, so I'll stand by my assertion that most businesses didn't see the relevance at that point. There were only around 500 web servers globally by 1994.
    - kkielhofner 5y ago
      I don't know why we've moved the goalposts to 1994. Anyway, ENS has been available for five years (ethereum for seven, blockchain for 13). What businesses that are doing something other than sell their crypto project have an ENS domain? You're accurate in that the plumber down the street, local dentist, bakery, etc likely didn't see the relevance of the web in 1994-1996. 13 years after bitcoin later I've been to maybe five of these types of businesses that take crypto or have anything to do with blockchain. 13 years after the release of the web there were over 85 million websites with a billion eyeballs. Bitcoin didn't even show up on Google Trends until 2011. Two years after the web 9/10 of the top 10 Fortune 500 had a domain. I'm doing my best to be respectful but how is this even a debate at this point?
      - MattPalmer1086 5y ago
        1994 was just the only stat I could easily find, only trying to show the web was pretty small back then. I don't think crypto is doing anything useful. It's been around long enough to have had important things (other than trading crypto tokens) built on it. I just don't think most businesses saw the relevance of the internet in 1995, but it certainly grew fast and kept growing. Not trying to be disrespectful, I just think we may be talking past each other a bit.
twelve40 5y ago
but... what is this stuff used for? the OP just gave you a ton of use cases for the Internet in 1995 which you ignored? > businesses were seeing the benefits for product information, sales, support; people were using the web to research and book travel plans; email and chat were becoming quite popular (people had been meeting and getting married online since the BBS era); etc For "crypto", it's... flipping coins to whoever pays more, doing illegal things and... apparently moving money to Argentina. Anything else?
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Sorry to disappoint, but in 1995, almost nobody had any real benefit from email (except maybe some universities). If you think email was mainstream back then, your memory is playing tricks on you.
acdha 5y ago
> Your claim that the internet was noticable changing the world in 1995 is not accurate at all. Look, I get that you need to find buyers for your tokens but lying to people who have first-hand experience is not the way to do that. I gave you a list of things real people were doing then, and it wasn’t even complete. For example, 1995 is the year RealPlayer came out of beta and you had adoption by major radio stations and NPR. Major news organizations like the BBC, Bloomberg, El Pais, etc. were starting to publish online. Amazon had launched the year before. Music fandom and downloads were picking up, lead by college students around the world tired of the mainstream selection by the record labels. The fact that the yellow pages guys weren’t keen on their traditional business model being disrupted isn’t surprising. That wasn’t uncommon back then, but that doesn’t mean that the people who built their replacements weren’t getting started and finding plenty of people interested in using new alternatives. The key difference is that cryptocurrency has taken a decade longer and has had almost no outside impact. Most of the things people are building are ways to spend or speculate on cryptocurrency, not doing anything you can’t already do or doing it better. If Bitcoin suddenly disappeared, no non-cryptocurrency business would be disrupted. Nobody who isn’t a speculator would notice a change in their daily life. Even porn sites barely use it, which you’d think would be popular given the US credit card processors’ crusade against naughty content. Here’s a list of websites started BEFORE 1995 - note that they’re not just people talking about building or selling websites but rather normal things people like as part of their lives which were made better by being on the web: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_founded_before_1995 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_founded_befor...
- koonsolo 5y ago
  > If Bitcoin suddenly disappeared, no non-cryptocurrency business would be disrupted. The same could be said about internet in 1995.
  - acdha 5y ago
    No, it couldn’t have. I’ve given you a ton of examples of people using it for things other than selling internet access or software: all of those people went out of their way to get access because it let them do things they wanted to do, often buying expensive new computers to do so. The cryptocurrency world didn’t have anything close to those barriers to adoption but still hasn’t come up with a pitch for doing anything most people want to do. There’s no equivalent of the hobbyists sharing photos and tips, businesses communicating better with their customers, people reading the news from other countries, etc.

MattPalmer1086 5y ago

In 1995, I don't recall a lot of people actively against the internet. It's true that most businesses didn't believe it was relevant to them.

koonsolo 5y ago
In 1995, I didn't know anybody who had internet.
- MattPalmer1086 5y ago
  I had access at work, but not at home.
kkielhofner 5y ago
Look at the WHOIS registration dates for the internet domains of the Fortune 500 in 1996. Almost all businesses knew within a few years that it was valuable to them. Go on the Wayback Machine (starts in '96) and check out the various websites for General Electric, Toyota, GM, you name it. They were there. Here's a taste from the Fortune 500[1] in 1996: GM: gm.com - 1992-01-16T00:00:00Z Ford: ford.com - 1988-09-01T00:00:00Z Exxon Mobile: exxon.com - 1991-01-03T05:00:00Z Wal-Mart: walmart.com - 1995-02-23T00:00:00Z AT&T: att.net (among others) - 1993-12-13T00:00:00Z General Electric: ge.com - 1986-08-05T00:00:00Z Mobil: mobil.com - 1991-02-01T05:00:00+0000 Chrysler: chrysler.com - 1993-06-16T00:00:00Z Altria Group: 2000-03-14T21:05:01Z So there you have it - 9/10 of the most valuable companies in the world had a domain name and website by 1995 (the only one missing being a tobacco giant). I don't think I would say "most businesses didn't believe it was relevant to them". [1] https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/full/1996/ https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_arc...
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Look at all the big companies accepting crypto in 2022: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ In 25 years, we can have a discussion of "Look it was obvious, all these big companies were accepting crypto in 2022". Edit: my point is not that crypto succcess is obvious, my point is that internet success wasn't obvious.
- MattPalmer1086 5y ago
  Interesting, but big companies aren't most companies, so I'll stand by my assertion that most businesses didn't see the relevance at that point. There were only around 500 web servers globally by 1994.
  - kkielhofner 5y ago
    I don't know why we've moved the goalposts to 1994. Anyway, ENS has been available for five years (ethereum for seven, blockchain for 13). What businesses that are doing something other than sell their crypto project have an ENS domain? You're accurate in that the plumber down the street, local dentist, bakery, etc likely didn't see the relevance of the web in 1994-1996. 13 years after bitcoin later I've been to maybe five of these types of businesses that take crypto or have anything to do with blockchain. 13 years after the release of the web there were over 85 million websites with a billion eyeballs. Bitcoin didn't even show up on Google Trends until 2011. Two years after the web 9/10 of the top 10 Fortune 500 had a domain. I'm doing my best to be respectful but how is this even a debate at this point?
    - MattPalmer1086 5y ago
      1994 was just the only stat I could easily find, only trying to show the web was pretty small back then. I don't think crypto is doing anything useful. It's been around long enough to have had important things (other than trading crypto tokens) built on it. I just don't think most businesses saw the relevance of the internet in 1995, but it certainly grew fast and kept growing. Not trying to be disrespectful, I just think we may be talking past each other a bit.

twelve40 5y ago

but... what is this stuff used for? the OP just gave you a ton of use cases for the Internet in 1995 which you ignored? > businesses were seeing the benefits for product information, sales, support; people were using the web to research and book travel plans; email and chat were becoming quite popular (people had been meeting and getting married online since the BBS era); etc For "crypto", it's... flipping coins to whoever pays more, doing illegal things and... apparently moving money to Argentina. Anything else?

koonsolo 5y ago
Sorry to disappoint, but in 1995, almost nobody had any real benefit from email (except maybe some universities). If you think email was mainstream back then, your memory is playing tricks on you.

acdha 5y ago

> Your claim that the internet was noticable changing the world in 1995 is not accurate at all. Look, I get that you need to find buyers for your tokens but lying to people who have first-hand experience is not the way to do that. I gave you a list of things real people were doing then, and it wasn’t even complete. For example, 1995 is the year RealPlayer came out of beta and you had adoption by major radio stations and NPR. Major news organizations like the BBC, Bloomberg, El Pais, etc. were starting to publish online. Amazon had launched the year before. Music fandom and downloads were picking up, lead by college students around the world tired of the mainstream selection by the record labels. The fact that the yellow pages guys weren’t keen on their traditional business model being disrupted isn’t surprising. That wasn’t uncommon back then, but that doesn’t mean that the people who built their replacements weren’t getting started and finding plenty of people interested in using new alternatives. The key difference is that cryptocurrency has taken a decade longer and has had almost no outside impact. Most of the things people are building are ways to spend or speculate on cryptocurrency, not doing anything you can’t already do or doing it better. If Bitcoin suddenly disappeared, no non-cryptocurrency business would be disrupted. Nobody who isn’t a speculator would notice a change in their daily life. Even porn sites barely use it, which you’d think would be popular given the US credit card processors’ crusade against naughty content. Here’s a list of websites started BEFORE 1995 - note that they’re not just people talking about building or selling websites but rather normal things people like as part of their lives which were made better by being on the web: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_founded_before_1995 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_founded_befor...

koonsolo 5y ago
> If Bitcoin suddenly disappeared, no non-cryptocurrency business would be disrupted. The same could be said about internet in 1995.
- acdha 5y ago
  No, it couldn’t have. I’ve given you a ton of examples of people using it for things other than selling internet access or software: all of those people went out of their way to get access because it let them do things they wanted to do, often buying expensive new computers to do so. The cryptocurrency world didn’t have anything close to those barriers to adoption but still hasn’t come up with a pitch for doing anything most people want to do. There’s no equivalent of the hobbyists sharing photos and tips, businesses communicating better with their customers, people reading the news from other countries, etc.