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And? Okay. The people who started the GoFundMe are Tamara Lich and B.J. Dichter. Neither of them are truck drivers. They are, however, racist conspiracy theori

And? Okay. The people who started the GoFundMe are Tamara Lich and B.J. Dichter. Neither of them are truck drivers. They are, however, racist conspiracy theorists. Tamara Lich's Facebook pages were full of Islamophobia, and conspiracy theories about the "Muslim Brotherhood" operating in Canada, and her own personal activism supporting conspiracy theorists. Tamara Lich is also an official of some kind in Canada's "Maverick Party", a very fringe movement advocating for western separatism. B.J. Dichter is an activist for the similarly fringe People's Party of Canada, and has described the Conservative Party of Canada as "suffering from the stench of cultural relativism and political Islam". Patrick King is another important figure in organizing the convoy, and he is a Nazi. He promotes the "great replacement theory", minimizes the Holocaust, and argues that Jewish bankers are controlling politicians. Dave Steenberg is another organizer whose brain has been rotted out by Facebook conspiracy theory, and who fantasizes about COVID mask mandates implementors being hauled before war-crimes tribunals. He's also shared the logo of the Soldiers of Odin, a totally! totally peaceful group that just happens to like Nazi imagery and "patrolling" neighborhoods to keep the wrong kind of people out. (The actual Soldiers of Odin don't seem to be involved, though). This "trucker convoy" has been condemned by trucker associations in Canada and seems to not really have that many truckers involved (mostly pickup trucks). Convoy members have been seen with US Confederate flags, Canadian flags with swastikas scrawled on them, Trump 2024 flags, and so on. Stickers, t-shirts, and other merch of Trudeau being hanged are popular. (I'm sure this is just a little political disagreement!) They've terrorized towns that they've rolled through, sometimes invoking upside-down "sovereign citizen" legal logic, like telling people they're trespassing on public property. Ottawa residents have seen many protests, but everyone agrees this protest is one of the most disorderly and aggressive they've ever seen. Including, apparently, harassing workers at a soup kitchen, of all things. On social media, videos of non-white Canadians have often been appropriated and taken out of context to imply there is broad support for this convoy among all ethnicities. There are some non-fascist people who may oppose mandates and show up for that reason. But this all definitely started as a ridiculous grift by nativists, conspiracy theorists, white supremacists, and literal Nazis, and it's mostly attracted people with obnoxious attitudes.

refurb 5y ago
This comes across as a laundry list of “people who hold views I don’t like” at least the two that started the GoFundMe. And are you saying people can’t start a GoFundMe without being a trucker? That makes no sense, it’s beyond truckers now. The rest of the names (the ones I’ll take your word are racists) you describe as “organizers” but what does that mean? Involved? Leading it? What? Tweeted support? And who cares what Trucking Organizations think? Do they represent all truckers? All dissenting voices shouldn’t be heard? This seems like some vague collection of “facts” and insinuations in an attempt to paint the entire movement. It’s kind of slimy.
- noisefridge 5y ago
  Can you describe what sort of evidence would convince you that this movement is a problem, other than the political affiliations and concerns of the organizers, the behavior of people on the ground, the symbols on display, and what actions they are calling for? Let me steel-man your proposition. I've seen left-wing protests that were organized by people who were rather questionable, and who were far more radical than the average protester. But in those cases, the content of the protest is carefully measured so it's something everyone can support. I assume there are similar affairs on the right. So no, not everyone who attends a protest has identical views with the organizers. However, it seems to me that even if you ignore every other bit of evidence and try to focus on what it is these protesters want and are actually doing, it's still a problem. They don't seem to be here to respectfully petition for a change of policies. This is not the loyal opposition. This is a Facebook conspiracy theory convened to experience itself in person. They're here to flex "ownership" of a national capital, to validate their own delusion that the government is taken over by foreign powers, to call for the literal murder of a political leader, and to goad each other into more and more obnoxious actions.
  - totony 5y ago
    (not parent) >They're here to flex "ownership" of a national capital Seeing how the government & media reacted at the start, I highly doubt a change.org petition would have had accomplished much. Having flashy show of support is way more impactful. This is the whole point of protests. >This is a Facebook conspiracy theory convened to experience itself in person. As I said in OP, reductionist views like this are very toxic and not how you approach disagreements in a democracy. Attacking the character of some organizers (be it true or not) adds nothing to the discussion except divisiveness. Not only that, you seem to imply that their demands are invalid because of that, which is just a smear campaign to ignore the issues they (and the other protesters) raise.

refurb 5y ago

This comes across as a laundry list of “people who hold views I don’t like” at least the two that started the GoFundMe. And are you saying people can’t start a GoFundMe without being a trucker? That makes no sense, it’s beyond truckers now. The rest of the names (the ones I’ll take your word are racists) you describe as “organizers” but what does that mean? Involved? Leading it? What? Tweeted support? And who cares what Trucking Organizations think? Do they represent all truckers? All dissenting voices shouldn’t be heard? This seems like some vague collection of “facts” and insinuations in an attempt to paint the entire movement. It’s kind of slimy.

noisefridge 5y ago
Can you describe what sort of evidence would convince you that this movement is a problem, other than the political affiliations and concerns of the organizers, the behavior of people on the ground, the symbols on display, and what actions they are calling for? Let me steel-man your proposition. I've seen left-wing protests that were organized by people who were rather questionable, and who were far more radical than the average protester. But in those cases, the content of the protest is carefully measured so it's something everyone can support. I assume there are similar affairs on the right. So no, not everyone who attends a protest has identical views with the organizers. However, it seems to me that even if you ignore every other bit of evidence and try to focus on what it is these protesters want and are actually doing, it's still a problem. They don't seem to be here to respectfully petition for a change of policies. This is not the loyal opposition. This is a Facebook conspiracy theory convened to experience itself in person. They're here to flex "ownership" of a national capital, to validate their own delusion that the government is taken over by foreign powers, to call for the literal murder of a political leader, and to goad each other into more and more obnoxious actions.
- totony 5y ago
  (not parent) >They're here to flex "ownership" of a national capital Seeing how the government & media reacted at the start, I highly doubt a change.org petition would have had accomplished much. Having flashy show of support is way more impactful. This is the whole point of protests. >This is a Facebook conspiracy theory convened to experience itself in person. As I said in OP, reductionist views like this are very toxic and not how you approach disagreements in a democracy. Attacking the character of some organizers (be it true or not) adds nothing to the discussion except divisiveness. Not only that, you seem to imply that their demands are invalid because of that, which is just a smear campaign to ignore the issues they (and the other protesters) raise.