5 ms·

> Plus, shitty middlemen like DoorDash are gross Hmm... do you feel the same way about the middlemen who make it possible for you to buy bread without ordering

> Plus, shitty middlemen like DoorDash are gross Hmm... do you feel the same way about the middlemen who make it possible for you to buy bread without ordering the wheat direct from a farmer in 5,000 bushel lots, storing it, grinding it into flour, and then making it into bread? Everyone hates "middlemen", but if they're really not adding value they tend to get disintermediated fairly quickly. I remember the bad old days before Amazon where if I wanted some weird bit of kit I'd have to go to the library, blow a few hours doing research to figure out what companies might make the thing (not always successfully!), then blow more hours making long-distance phone calls (very expensive back then) to try to find a company that a) had what I needed and b) would sell it in quantity one. It sucked. Massively. > Why would I want to have someone take a vig off my business and have a worse experience by any measurement? Because then you don't have to hire your own drivers and maintain your own online ordering system. Not all restaurants participate in DoorDash, by any means. Presumably the ones that do find that it adds value. Also, I disagree that the DoorDash experience is worse. Strongly. To name just one advantage over the old ways, there was no GPS app that showed me when the driver was nearby so I could be prepared.

ec109685 5y ago
Biggest issue is that DoorDash lies about how much you’re paying for delivery. They show you some of the fees, but hide the fact that the menu prices are often jacked up by 50% or more.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  > hide the fact that the menu prices are often jacked up by 50% or more. Wheat in metric tonne lots direct from the farmer costs about $350-400/tonne, or about $0.35-$0.40/kg. Kroger enriched white bread costs about $3.00/kg, more than seven times as much. There are a lot of middlemen in there, each of which raises the price. On the other hand, I don't have to store a metric tonne of wheat, and maintain my own milling and baking facilities (I do make my own bread, but that's actually more expensive than buying cheap white bread... worth it, though). Similarly, with DoorDash I don't have to interrupt what I'm doing, go to the restaurant, stand in line/wait for a table, then travel back home. Those are costs I avoid by using Dd. Is it worth it? It depends on the individual. But no one is being forced into the transaction, and they are clearly adding value for many.
  - ec109685 5y ago
    The amount you are paying for the convenience of delivery should be clearly laid out. To claim that delivery fees are X when really, your are paying significantly more is disingenuous.
  - DavidPeiffer 5y ago
    >But no one is being forced into the transaction, and they are clearly adding value for many. Eh, there have been many stories over the years about these delivery platforms doing pretty awful things to insert themselves as a middleman where they aren't wanted. Here's one from a couple days ago. [1] Other strategies I've seen stories about include claiming the location on Google maps and changing the phone number listed, buying a domain for the restaurant and hosting the menu (setup to order through the delivery service), and modifying the prices shown in the app to help cover delivery costs which could distort the perception of the value of the restaurant unfairly. I'm not sure where I personally fall on it all. On the one hand, a generic delivery service should be able to exist, and if that generic delivery service ordered food, maybe they should get served just as any other takeout does. On the other, restaurants are ending up with bad reviews because consumers sometimes think they're ordering directly from the restaurants and end up with cold food, stolen food, etc. Restaurants might package things differently if they knew they'd be in the car longer than the average drive home. I'm empathetic to restaurants wanting to protect their reputations. This is a bigger issue than Amazon delivering your package 30 minutes late, the food has a pretty short time where it'll be considered "really good" by the consumer, and a delivery service maximizing profit would like to get just one more delivery on the trip if at all possible. [1] https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/restaurants/anti-doordash-restaurants-phoenix-fnb-carlys-bistro-hana-japanese-eatery-11537214 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/restaurants/anti-doordash-re...
  - MAGZine 5y ago
    for places that never had delivery people, its a good proposition to expand their network and get food into more people's hands. ... but almost every pizza place has their own dedicated delivery people. In short, by using the middleman, you're scamming yourself (through higher costs, and worse delivery because you're using random/shared agents rather than dedicated), or you're scamming the business (who ends up having to eat some of the costs). That said, if you don't care about the business and you don't care about money (a single place to order pizza from is more valuable), then order away.
Spooky23 5y ago
No that’s very different as bakeries and flour mills add value to the commodity product. DoorDash pays the drivers well, so it’s using investor dollars to subsidize the service to entrench it and drive out competitive processes. Your argument was was the same as the Uber argument at the peak type period. When the Saudi sovereign wealth fund was kicking in $10-20 for each ride, the hype argument was we would not need to buy cars because some AI robot magic carpet would take care of everything. Now, Uber costs more than the cabs did before. This is the same.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  > No that’s very different as bakeries and flour mills add value to the commodity product. Uber adds value by letting me call a ride by clicking on an app, and then telling me when it has arrived, rather than making me call the cab dispatch office, wait on hold, and then constantly look out the door to see if the cab is there. > Now, Uber costs more than the cabs did before. Not here, it doesn't. In virtually every city, operating a cab required that one purchase or lease a medallion, and those were very expensive (up to $1 million in NYC). Now that was a pure rent-seeking racket. Those medallions are still out there, by the way. If Uber is really charging more than a cab, then the cabs will come back and undercut them.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    > Those medallions are still out there, by the way. If Uber is really charging more than a cab, then the cabs will come back and undercut them. The cabs are gone in most places. Why would someone go through the risk of getting cars, insurance, etc when Uber will notice a dip in business in days and crush you with discounts? The NYC scenario is very different because medallions were a control in place to limit congestion; NYC in general and Manhattan in particular is a unique place.

ec109685 5y ago

Biggest issue is that DoorDash lies about how much you’re paying for delivery. They show you some of the fees, but hide the fact that the menu prices are often jacked up by 50% or more.

Turing_Machine 5y ago
> hide the fact that the menu prices are often jacked up by 50% or more. Wheat in metric tonne lots direct from the farmer costs about $350-400/tonne, or about $0.35-$0.40/kg. Kroger enriched white bread costs about $3.00/kg, more than seven times as much. There are a lot of middlemen in there, each of which raises the price. On the other hand, I don't have to store a metric tonne of wheat, and maintain my own milling and baking facilities (I do make my own bread, but that's actually more expensive than buying cheap white bread... worth it, though). Similarly, with DoorDash I don't have to interrupt what I'm doing, go to the restaurant, stand in line/wait for a table, then travel back home. Those are costs I avoid by using Dd. Is it worth it? It depends on the individual. But no one is being forced into the transaction, and they are clearly adding value for many.
- ec109685 5y ago
  The amount you are paying for the convenience of delivery should be clearly laid out. To claim that delivery fees are X when really, your are paying significantly more is disingenuous.
- DavidPeiffer 5y ago
  >But no one is being forced into the transaction, and they are clearly adding value for many. Eh, there have been many stories over the years about these delivery platforms doing pretty awful things to insert themselves as a middleman where they aren't wanted. Here's one from a couple days ago. [1] Other strategies I've seen stories about include claiming the location on Google maps and changing the phone number listed, buying a domain for the restaurant and hosting the menu (setup to order through the delivery service), and modifying the prices shown in the app to help cover delivery costs which could distort the perception of the value of the restaurant unfairly. I'm not sure where I personally fall on it all. On the one hand, a generic delivery service should be able to exist, and if that generic delivery service ordered food, maybe they should get served just as any other takeout does. On the other, restaurants are ending up with bad reviews because consumers sometimes think they're ordering directly from the restaurants and end up with cold food, stolen food, etc. Restaurants might package things differently if they knew they'd be in the car longer than the average drive home. I'm empathetic to restaurants wanting to protect their reputations. This is a bigger issue than Amazon delivering your package 30 minutes late, the food has a pretty short time where it'll be considered "really good" by the consumer, and a delivery service maximizing profit would like to get just one more delivery on the trip if at all possible. [1] https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/restaurants/anti-doordash-restaurants-phoenix-fnb-carlys-bistro-hana-japanese-eatery-11537214 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/restaurants/anti-doordash-re...
- MAGZine 5y ago
  for places that never had delivery people, its a good proposition to expand their network and get food into more people's hands. ... but almost every pizza place has their own dedicated delivery people. In short, by using the middleman, you're scamming yourself (through higher costs, and worse delivery because you're using random/shared agents rather than dedicated), or you're scamming the business (who ends up having to eat some of the costs). That said, if you don't care about the business and you don't care about money (a single place to order pizza from is more valuable), then order away.

Spooky23 5y ago

No that’s very different as bakeries and flour mills add value to the commodity product. DoorDash pays the drivers well, so it’s using investor dollars to subsidize the service to entrench it and drive out competitive processes. Your argument was was the same as the Uber argument at the peak type period. When the Saudi sovereign wealth fund was kicking in $10-20 for each ride, the hype argument was we would not need to buy cars because some AI robot magic carpet would take care of everything. Now, Uber costs more than the cabs did before. This is the same.

Turing_Machine 5y ago
> No that’s very different as bakeries and flour mills add value to the commodity product. Uber adds value by letting me call a ride by clicking on an app, and then telling me when it has arrived, rather than making me call the cab dispatch office, wait on hold, and then constantly look out the door to see if the cab is there. > Now, Uber costs more than the cabs did before. Not here, it doesn't. In virtually every city, operating a cab required that one purchase or lease a medallion, and those were very expensive (up to $1 million in NYC). Now that was a pure rent-seeking racket. Those medallions are still out there, by the way. If Uber is really charging more than a cab, then the cabs will come back and undercut them.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  > Those medallions are still out there, by the way. If Uber is really charging more than a cab, then the cabs will come back and undercut them. The cabs are gone in most places. Why would someone go through the risk of getting cars, insurance, etc when Uber will notice a dip in business in days and crush you with discounts? The NYC scenario is very different because medallions were a control in place to limit congestion; NYC in general and Manhattan in particular is a unique place.