4 ms·

If all dogs are animals, it wouldn't follow that all animals are dogs

yucky 5y ago
Except in this analogy it would be calling dogs human, not animals. Transwoman is not a subset of woman, it is a different thing entirely. Not meant in a pejorative way, just definitionally. That is unless we are just equating gender to personality type, since using this approach makes gender essentially undefinable. It means goth or geek or whatever can be called genders.
- zzo38computer 5y ago
  I can understand the point, but I do not agree. While that definition is possible, I think that it is unnecessary. "Woman" is the gender (she/her/etc, and commonly associated with many social traits, too), and "transwoman" means (as far as I understand it) a woman who is assigned as male at birth (whether or not she is male now, or even if that question has a clear answer, which in some cases it doesn't). (Another possibility, that some writers had used in the past, is using the pronouns as nouns. That might not work in all languages, though.) If being biologically male/female is what is relevant instead of gender (grammatically male/female) then you can say that, but that isn't really that simple anyways (and the sex is not quite as well-defined as many people say it is anyways) and so it is better to specify specifically what is needed. I once saw the mention of a medical form that instead of male/female it says "persons with [some organ or condition, I forget which one]". It isn't due to political correctness; there is an actual good reason, which is that presumably this is the specific aspect which is important for this medical procedure. However, "mother" and "father" are different. You could use these words in the biological meaning or in the adoptive meaning (even if they are your biological parents). (Maybe there should be other words, e.g. maybe "mom" and "dad" for the "adoptive" meanings instead.) If adoptive, then it would seem to be related to gender (and is unclear if the gender does not apply, then what?). If biological, then it is different, and has to do with function instead of with grammar/social. If you are pregnant with your child then you will be that child's mother, regardless of your sex and/or gender in your past, present, and future. Consider hypothetically, that somehow somehow can be changed and have both reproductive functions, that you might be one child's mother and another child's father at the same time! I do not understand how is "goth", "geek", etc as a gender, since gender is a grammatical construct. What will be the pronouns, prefixes/suffixes (for languages that use them), titles, etc (if any)? (Maybe there is one, but if so, I do not know what it is.) Doctors may use "Dr." in front of their name, but not pronouns for them, so even though there is that I wouldn't call that a gender, either. I had once mentioned the possibility of someone's gender being different in different languages; I don't know whether or not any people choose to do that, though.
  - yucky 5y ago
    >I do not understand how is "goth", "geek", etc as a gender, since gender is a grammatical construct. I guess the question is...why not? Nobody seems to be able to clearly define what a gender actually is. What are the definitional requirements/restrictions for something to be considered a gender? How many genders are there, and where I can I find a list of them so that I may better understand what is and isn't a gender?

Except in this analogy it would be calling dogs human, not animals. Transwoman is not a subset of woman, it is a different thing entirely. Not meant in a pejorative way, just definitionally. That is unless we are just equating gender to personality type, since using this approach makes gender essentially undefinable. It means goth or geek or whatever can be called genders.

zzo38computer 5y ago
I can understand the point, but I do not agree. While that definition is possible, I think that it is unnecessary. "Woman" is the gender (she/her/etc, and commonly associated with many social traits, too), and "transwoman" means (as far as I understand it) a woman who is assigned as male at birth (whether or not she is male now, or even if that question has a clear answer, which in some cases it doesn't). (Another possibility, that some writers had used in the past, is using the pronouns as nouns. That might not work in all languages, though.) If being biologically male/female is what is relevant instead of gender (grammatically male/female) then you can say that, but that isn't really that simple anyways (and the sex is not quite as well-defined as many people say it is anyways) and so it is better to specify specifically what is needed. I once saw the mention of a medical form that instead of male/female it says "persons with [some organ or condition, I forget which one]". It isn't due to political correctness; there is an actual good reason, which is that presumably this is the specific aspect which is important for this medical procedure. However, "mother" and "father" are different. You could use these words in the biological meaning or in the adoptive meaning (even if they are your biological parents). (Maybe there should be other words, e.g. maybe "mom" and "dad" for the "adoptive" meanings instead.) If adoptive, then it would seem to be related to gender (and is unclear if the gender does not apply, then what?). If biological, then it is different, and has to do with function instead of with grammar/social. If you are pregnant with your child then you will be that child's mother, regardless of your sex and/or gender in your past, present, and future. Consider hypothetically, that somehow somehow can be changed and have both reproductive functions, that you might be one child's mother and another child's father at the same time! I do not understand how is "goth", "geek", etc as a gender, since gender is a grammatical construct. What will be the pronouns, prefixes/suffixes (for languages that use them), titles, etc (if any)? (Maybe there is one, but if so, I do not know what it is.) Doctors may use "Dr." in front of their name, but not pronouns for them, so even though there is that I wouldn't call that a gender, either. I had once mentioned the possibility of someone's gender being different in different languages; I don't know whether or not any people choose to do that, though.
- yucky 5y ago
  >I do not understand how is "goth", "geek", etc as a gender, since gender is a grammatical construct. I guess the question is...why not? Nobody seems to be able to clearly define what a gender actually is. What are the definitional requirements/restrictions for something to be considered a gender? How many genders are there, and where I can I find a list of them so that I may better understand what is and isn't a gender?