6 ms·

Has Neal Stephenson become too accessible?

32 points by _kate_ 15y ago

wccrawford 15y ago
And thus a new class of hipster was born. Don't get mad that your favorite author produced a work that is 'more accessible' or that it isn't what you wanted. Blindly buying because of brand name has always been a bad idea.
- tptacek 15y ago
  I don't think hipsters spend much time obsessing about the accessibility of genre fiction authors. People call Stephenson "Pynchonian", but Pynchon wrote a whole bunch of books --- is still writing them, in fact --- and just 2-3 of those is a lifetime supply for any hipster.
anduril66 15y ago
Yes; being the focus of a salon.com article is an indicator.
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  Speaking of being a salon.com article... what the heck did they do to the behavior of the web site? It refused to let me read the whole article. Every time I clicked (FF6) the "Continue reading" link, it expanded the text but then immediately re-loaded the whole page. I had to quickly click the "Stop" button before it could reload. This is an unfriendly feature.
  - mnutt 15y ago
    It's probably a javascript error. They probably have javascript that hides the full article, but then adds a "Continue reading" link and attaches a click handler to it. If the click handler throws an error and fails to stop event propagation, it actually follows the link and reloads the page.
    - esrauch 15y ago
      It sounds like he was saying that reloading the page didn't have the new content, which means it is what you are talking about but combined with a link target that doesn't actually take you to a page with the continued text, meaning someone with JS disabled wouldn't be able to read the full text. I'm too lazy to check if thats actually the case though.
  - RickHull 15y ago
    Same. And the "print" link seems designed to defeat a full page load as well. I got around it by middle-clicking the print link to open in a new tab.
_delirium 15y ago
The subtitle is a better way of framing it than the title, I think. Being accessible, all else being equal, isn't really inherently bad. For example, you can increase the accessibility of a poorly written physics textbook by just making the prose better. The more interesting question they seem to be getting at is whether he's sacrificed something that was interesting about his writing out of a desire to increase accessibility. You could even just leave accessibility out of it and ask: are Neal Stephenson's most recent novels as interesting as his older ones, and if not, why not? I do think there's something to the hypothesis that he used to build these intricate, complex worlds with a lot of depth to them, and is doing so less in his more recent novels. edit: Come to think of it, doing it accessibly sort of is his thing to begin with. I've heard Snow Crash described as a more-accessible reimagining/retelling of Gibson/Sterling style cyberpunk, which isn't too far off.
- sid0 15y ago
  Out of all his books I've read (Snow Crash, Diamond Age, Cryptonomicon), the world in Anathem is by far his most complex.
  - bergie 15y ago
    All of these were great, but I think I enjoyed the Baroque Cycle the most. Comes probably from the long-time passion of reading (and re-enacting) history...
    - runevault 15y ago
      I haven't tried Anathem yet (though I have it) but I never got past the first part of Baroque cycle, and I loved Snow Crash (probably my all time favorite novel), Cryptonomicon, and even Diamond Age. I've heard once you make it past the initial Wodehouse moment it gets better, but my god he bored me to tears with that. Considering how much I ate up all the insanity in Snow Crash that's saying a lot ;).
      - bergie 15y ago
betageek 15y ago
what a hipster - "Yeah, he's ok but I prefer his early stuff" Reamde seems like a trip back to the style of the Stephen Bury books he wrote with his uncle, The Cobweb & Interface, both enjoyable reads.
henry501 15y ago
I'm assuming there are many NS fans on HN, so I'll ask this here. The only NS book I've read is Anathem, and while I enjoyed the story his writing style seemed too self-indulgent for me to really get into. Renaming/redescribing major mathematical and philosophical theories in a parallel dimension? Look how smart NS is. Quantum monk space ninjas? Oh man that's so cool can they be pirates too? That being said, he's been lauded so consistently that I'd like to read more of his work and figure out what I'm missing. What would HN'ers recommend?
- sid0 15y ago
  Don't worry, Anathem's the only book where he renames things like that, and that's mainly because his construction necessitates it. He is rather self-indulgent though. Snow Crash or Cryptonomicon are good starts, and if you like them you should then upgrade to Diamond Age.
  - corvuscorax 15y ago
    Well, I found the renaming of Linux to Finux pretty annoying, I must admit. Really liked the book otherwise, but that was grating.
    - joeyh 15y ago
      It's sort of an in joke. Freax is what Linus originally called Linux. Probably it was also intended to not make the book age too badly if Linux cratered?
    - EdwardCoffin 15y ago
      This is right from his site: >Neal, in Cryptonomicon why did you call Windows and MacOS by their true names but used the fictitious name 'Finux' to refer to what is obviously 'Linux?' Does this mean that you hate Linux? Since Finux was the principal operating system used by the characters in the book, I needed some creative leeway to have the fictitious operating system as used by the characters be different in minor ways from the real operating system called Linux. Otherwise I would receive many complaints from Linux users pointing out errors in my depiction of Linux. This is why Batman works in Gotham City, instead of New York--by putting him in Gotham City, the creators afforded themselves the creative license to put buildings in different places, etc. http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Old_site.html http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Old_... Edit: tried to fix formatting
ZacharyPitts 15y ago
I've read most of Reamde already (have an early access copy from a bookstore book buyer friend). I'm nearly done (800 out of 980 pages). It simply is not a good of a book as the Baroque Cycle volumes or Cryptinomicon. I actually did not like Anathem all that much, as it felt too contrived. That said, Reamde is a fun read. I suppose it could be put into the book category of Thriller as the article suggests. I'd give it a 3/5 stars, as in, I liked it, but won't bother reading it again. Which is how I feel about most decent thrillers. But then again, it appears that it will have an actual climactic ending to the story/book, which Stephenson has failed to do many times as his other books just peter out without ending properly (Snow Crash, Cryptinomicon, etc). It is more accessible. It is a thriller, and could be easily sold as airport pulp. There's a few descriptions of unix commands that various hackers are taking that would be skipped in a normal thriller, which does make it a Stephenson book. But, I am glad that Stephenson is experimenting with writing styles. Why would I want to read the same book over and over, just with different characters (which is all too common for writers)?
CWuestefeld 15y ago
I already thought that Anathem was way more accessible than previous works. I recall reading in Cryptonomicon two pages of some strange event before realizing he was showing us a different view of the Hindenburg disaster. I can't think of any example in Anathem where it wasn't immediately clear to me what he was trying to show. On the other hand, if Stephenson has a fault as a writer, it's the way he writes books' endings. The ends of Snow Crash or Diamond Age were just a mess. He skirted that in Cryptonomicon by just not really having an ending. I confess to not having been able to make it to the end of The Baroque Cycle, so I can't say. But then Anathem had a real, if rather out-of-left-field, ending. So I think that while he may be trending toward greater accessibility, he's also trending to writing better endings.
- joeyh 15y ago
  Anathem's first few chapters require the reader to learn about 100 made-up words via immersion. Throughout the book major points hinge on various scientific and philosophic theories, which are given different names (like Hylaean Theoric World) than they are on earth. So no, not really that accessible. This review for REAMDE is the first Stephenson review I've seen that didn't pan the climax, which might say something. BTW, did you notice that REAMDE is designed to make unix people's eyes cross?
  - CWuestefeld 15y ago
    Anathem's first few chapters require the reader to learn about 100 made-up words via immersion. True enough, but that's quite common in science fiction. scientific and philosophic theories, which are given different names (like Hylaean Theoric World) That's also true. But if you're already familiar with the concept, then the nomenclature shouldn't bother you too much (it didn't me). If you're not already familiar with it, then you won't know it's any different (until you're at a dinner party trying to talk philosophy with someone, and are met with blank stares).
ChrisBanner 15y ago
>> "Reamde" is disposable Stephenson. I'll take disposable Stephenson over no Stephenson at all.
TYPE_FASTER 15y ago
"Snow Crash" and "Cryptonomicon" seemed pretty accessible to me, much more so than "The Baroque Cycle." I think it's marketing aimed at getting readers who were turned off by TBC to pick up the new book.
- arethuza 15y ago
  I've found The Baroque Cycle to be an awful lot easier to get into through the Audible audiobook version - they are unabridged so it's not that!
  - chris11 15y ago
    I'll try reading it then. I got the audio books, but only made it partly through the first one.
- atourgates 15y ago
  You know, as I read through the comments on this story, I'm struck that the concept of accessibility is quite personal. I'm pretty sure I've seen every single one of Stephenson's books been called his "most accessible" somewhere in this thread. In my experience, "The Baroque Cycle" was Stephenson's most accessible, while "Anathem" and "Cryptonomicon" were the hardest to get my mind around. However, I don't think this has as much to do with Stephenson's writing, as it does with the fact that I was an English Lit major, and can barely wrap my brain around math. E.g. - a complex web of semi-historical figures? No problem! Plot-lines that revolve around mathematical concepts? Oh god, my brain just exploded.
Apocryphon 15y ago
Going by the summary of the plot, it seems like Gibson and Sterling, Stephenson is also dipping into War on Terror as a setting.

32 points by _kate_ 15y ago

And thus a new class of hipster was born. Don't get mad that your favorite author produced a work that is 'more accessible' or that it isn't what you wanted. Blindly buying because of brand name has always been a bad idea.

tptacek 15y ago
I don't think hipsters spend much time obsessing about the accessibility of genre fiction authors. People call Stephenson "Pynchonian", but Pynchon wrote a whole bunch of books --- is still writing them, in fact --- and just 2-3 of those is a lifetime supply for any hipster.

anduril66 15y ago

Yes; being the focus of a salon.com article is an indicator.

CWuestefeld 15y ago
Speaking of being a salon.com article... what the heck did they do to the behavior of the web site? It refused to let me read the whole article. Every time I clicked (FF6) the "Continue reading" link, it expanded the text but then immediately re-loaded the whole page. I had to quickly click the "Stop" button before it could reload. This is an unfriendly feature.
- mnutt 15y ago
  It's probably a javascript error. They probably have javascript that hides the full article, but then adds a "Continue reading" link and attaches a click handler to it. If the click handler throws an error and fails to stop event propagation, it actually follows the link and reloads the page.
  - esrauch 15y ago
    It sounds like he was saying that reloading the page didn't have the new content, which means it is what you are talking about but combined with a link target that doesn't actually take you to a page with the continued text, meaning someone with JS disabled wouldn't be able to read the full text. I'm too lazy to check if thats actually the case though.
- RickHull 15y ago
  Same. And the "print" link seems designed to defeat a full page load as well. I got around it by middle-clicking the print link to open in a new tab.

_delirium 15y ago

The subtitle is a better way of framing it than the title, I think. Being accessible, all else being equal, isn't really inherently bad. For example, you can increase the accessibility of a poorly written physics textbook by just making the prose better. The more interesting question they seem to be getting at is whether he's sacrificed something that was interesting about his writing out of a desire to increase accessibility. You could even just leave accessibility out of it and ask: are Neal Stephenson's most recent novels as interesting as his older ones, and if not, why not? I do think there's something to the hypothesis that he used to build these intricate, complex worlds with a lot of depth to them, and is doing so less in his more recent novels. edit: Come to think of it, doing it accessibly sort of is his thing to begin with. I've heard Snow Crash described as a more-accessible reimagining/retelling of Gibson/Sterling style cyberpunk, which isn't too far off.

sid0 15y ago
Out of all his books I've read (Snow Crash, Diamond Age, Cryptonomicon), the world in Anathem is by far his most complex.
- bergie 15y ago
  All of these were great, but I think I enjoyed the Baroque Cycle the most. Comes probably from the long-time passion of reading (and re-enacting) history...
  - runevault 15y ago
    I haven't tried Anathem yet (though I have it) but I never got past the first part of Baroque cycle, and I loved Snow Crash (probably my all time favorite novel), Cryptonomicon, and even Diamond Age. I've heard once you make it past the initial Wodehouse moment it gets better, but my god he bored me to tears with that. Considering how much I ate up all the insanity in Snow Crash that's saying a lot ;).
    - bergie 15y ago

betageek 15y ago

what a hipster - "Yeah, he's ok but I prefer his early stuff" Reamde seems like a trip back to the style of the Stephen Bury books he wrote with his uncle, The Cobweb & Interface, both enjoyable reads.

henry501 15y ago

I'm assuming there are many NS fans on HN, so I'll ask this here. The only NS book I've read is Anathem, and while I enjoyed the story his writing style seemed too self-indulgent for me to really get into. Renaming/redescribing major mathematical and philosophical theories in a parallel dimension? Look how smart NS is. Quantum monk space ninjas? Oh man that's so cool can they be pirates too? That being said, he's been lauded so consistently that I'd like to read more of his work and figure out what I'm missing. What would HN'ers recommend?

sid0 15y ago
Don't worry, Anathem's the only book where he renames things like that, and that's mainly because his construction necessitates it. He is rather self-indulgent though. Snow Crash or Cryptonomicon are good starts, and if you like them you should then upgrade to Diamond Age.
- corvuscorax 15y ago
  Well, I found the renaming of Linux to Finux pretty annoying, I must admit. Really liked the book otherwise, but that was grating.
  - joeyh 15y ago
    It's sort of an in joke. Freax is what Linus originally called Linux. Probably it was also intended to not make the book age too badly if Linux cratered?
  - EdwardCoffin 15y ago
    This is right from his site: >Neal, in Cryptonomicon why did you call Windows and MacOS by their true names but used the fictitious name 'Finux' to refer to what is obviously 'Linux?' Does this mean that you hate Linux? Since Finux was the principal operating system used by the characters in the book, I needed some creative leeway to have the fictitious operating system as used by the characters be different in minor ways from the real operating system called Linux. Otherwise I would receive many complaints from Linux users pointing out errors in my depiction of Linux. This is why Batman works in Gotham City, instead of New York--by putting him in Gotham City, the creators afforded themselves the creative license to put buildings in different places, etc. http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Old_site.html http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Old_... Edit: tried to fix formatting

ZacharyPitts 15y ago

I've read most of Reamde already (have an early access copy from a bookstore book buyer friend). I'm nearly done (800 out of 980 pages). It simply is not a good of a book as the Baroque Cycle volumes or Cryptinomicon. I actually did not like Anathem all that much, as it felt too contrived. That said, Reamde is a fun read. I suppose it could be put into the book category of Thriller as the article suggests. I'd give it a 3/5 stars, as in, I liked it, but won't bother reading it again. Which is how I feel about most decent thrillers. But then again, it appears that it will have an actual climactic ending to the story/book, which Stephenson has failed to do many times as his other books just peter out without ending properly (Snow Crash, Cryptinomicon, etc). It is more accessible. It is a thriller, and could be easily sold as airport pulp. There's a few descriptions of unix commands that various hackers are taking that would be skipped in a normal thriller, which does make it a Stephenson book. But, I am glad that Stephenson is experimenting with writing styles. Why would I want to read the same book over and over, just with different characters (which is all too common for writers)?

CWuestefeld 15y ago

I already thought that Anathem was way more accessible than previous works. I recall reading in Cryptonomicon two pages of some strange event before realizing he was showing us a different view of the Hindenburg disaster. I can't think of any example in Anathem where it wasn't immediately clear to me what he was trying to show. On the other hand, if Stephenson has a fault as a writer, it's the way he writes books' endings. The ends of Snow Crash or Diamond Age were just a mess. He skirted that in Cryptonomicon by just not really having an ending. I confess to not having been able to make it to the end of The Baroque Cycle, so I can't say. But then Anathem had a real, if rather out-of-left-field, ending. So I think that while he may be trending toward greater accessibility, he's also trending to writing better endings.

joeyh 15y ago
Anathem's first few chapters require the reader to learn about 100 made-up words via immersion. Throughout the book major points hinge on various scientific and philosophic theories, which are given different names (like Hylaean Theoric World) than they are on earth. So no, not really that accessible. This review for REAMDE is the first Stephenson review I've seen that didn't pan the climax, which might say something. BTW, did you notice that REAMDE is designed to make unix people's eyes cross?
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  Anathem's first few chapters require the reader to learn about 100 made-up words via immersion. True enough, but that's quite common in science fiction. scientific and philosophic theories, which are given different names (like Hylaean Theoric World) That's also true. But if you're already familiar with the concept, then the nomenclature shouldn't bother you too much (it didn't me). If you're not already familiar with it, then you won't know it's any different (until you're at a dinner party trying to talk philosophy with someone, and are met with blank stares).

ChrisBanner 15y ago

>> "Reamde" is disposable Stephenson. I'll take disposable Stephenson over no Stephenson at all.

TYPE_FASTER 15y ago

"Snow Crash" and "Cryptonomicon" seemed pretty accessible to me, much more so than "The Baroque Cycle." I think it's marketing aimed at getting readers who were turned off by TBC to pick up the new book.

arethuza 15y ago
I've found The Baroque Cycle to be an awful lot easier to get into through the Audible audiobook version - they are unabridged so it's not that!
- chris11 15y ago
  I'll try reading it then. I got the audio books, but only made it partly through the first one.
atourgates 15y ago
You know, as I read through the comments on this story, I'm struck that the concept of accessibility is quite personal. I'm pretty sure I've seen every single one of Stephenson's books been called his "most accessible" somewhere in this thread. In my experience, "The Baroque Cycle" was Stephenson's most accessible, while "Anathem" and "Cryptonomicon" were the hardest to get my mind around. However, I don't think this has as much to do with Stephenson's writing, as it does with the fact that I was an English Lit major, and can barely wrap my brain around math. E.g. - a complex web of semi-historical figures? No problem! Plot-lines that revolve around mathematical concepts? Oh god, my brain just exploded.

Apocryphon 15y ago

Going by the summary of the plot, it seems like Gibson and Sterling, Stephenson is also dipping into War on Terror as a setting.