3 ms·

This is a recipe for people spending time cleaning up files, back and forth, ad infinitum. Or, just letting the stubborn person win.

colechristensen 5y ago
My point is you let people have their different styles, reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down. Changing a couple of bytes in a file? Don't change the style. Writing something new? Figure out what's best. Rewriting a big chunk? Make reasonable formatting choices. Some programmers are zealots who have a hard time working with others, the solution isn't always to force the matter or acquiesce to the squeakiest wheel. A strong organization should be able to enable people do have their style and disable people from forcing their opinions on everybody or wasting everybody's time with low-value debate.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > My point is you let people have their different styles, reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down Code with style changes, especially within a file, is harder to follow than almost any reasonable consistent style. And adopting a common formatter with common settings is a lot less work than “reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down” even if it was neutral in readability.
- crehn 5y ago
  > Changing a couple of bytes in a file? Don't change the style. Writing something new? Figure out what's best. Rewriting a big chunk? Make reasonable formatting choices. This is exactly the type of arguably useless effort we don't want to spend any time on. Having to think about what is "reasonable", "allowed", or "best" is non-negligible cognitive burden for both the writer and reviewer/reader.
  - The_Colonel 5y ago
    When I use black or other formatter, I have to exert cognitive effort to anticipate how the formatter will format the code so that I can avoid the inevitable stupid formatting decisions. I often then tweak the code in a way that is not necessarily better, it's merely rendered better by black. It just feels like I'm fighting against the tool half of the time.

colechristensen 5y ago

My point is you let people have their different styles, reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down. Changing a couple of bytes in a file? Don't change the style. Writing something new? Figure out what's best. Rewriting a big chunk? Make reasonable formatting choices. Some programmers are zealots who have a hard time working with others, the solution isn't always to force the matter or acquiesce to the squeakiest wheel. A strong organization should be able to enable people do have their style and disable people from forcing their opinions on everybody or wasting everybody's time with low-value debate.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> My point is you let people have their different styles, reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down Code with style changes, especially within a file, is harder to follow than almost any reasonable consistent style. And adopting a common formatter with common settings is a lot less work than “reject changes on lines where code isn't changed, and coach the style zealots to calm down” even if it was neutral in readability.
crehn 5y ago
> Changing a couple of bytes in a file? Don't change the style. Writing something new? Figure out what's best. Rewriting a big chunk? Make reasonable formatting choices. This is exactly the type of arguably useless effort we don't want to spend any time on. Having to think about what is "reasonable", "allowed", or "best" is non-negligible cognitive burden for both the writer and reviewer/reader.
- The_Colonel 5y ago
  When I use black or other formatter, I have to exert cognitive effort to anticipate how the formatter will format the code so that I can avoid the inevitable stupid formatting decisions. I often then tweak the code in a way that is not necessarily better, it's merely rendered better by black. It just feels like I'm fighting against the tool half of the time.