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>It is in inconvenient that the names are identical I always assumed that was intentional. Also, are you sure male/female can be genders? If so, how is science

by yucky 5y ago

>It is in inconvenient that the names are identical I always assumed that was intentional. Also, are you sure male/female can be genders? If so, how is science supposed to refer to biological sex? You don't see this issue in animal classifications so I'm stumped. I'm still not sure what gender actually is then. What makes something a gender? Is there a reason geek, or goth or whatever can't be a gender?

dragonwriter 5y ago
> I always assumed that was intentional. Well, yes, and I explained why. That doesn't make it less unfortunate. > Also, are you sure male/female can be genders? Yes. > If so, how is science supposed to refer to biological sex? With... exactly the language it does, for now. It is inconvenient for discussions where both sex and gender are involved that major categories of each have similar names, but most discussion of biological sex aren't impacted by that, and “sex” vs. “ascribed gender” vs. “gender identity” can be specified where necessary to disambiguate. It's hardly the only overloaded set of descriptors in the English language. Over time the language on one side or the other might evolve (I though femme and masc might evolve as gender terms, but they have instead become terms of presentation distinct from gender, which is another useful distinction.) > What makes something a gender? What makes it an ascribed gender is if society attributes it to be people and sees it as exclusive of other ascribed genders. What makes it a gender identity is if people view it as the aspect of their own identity in the same space as socially ascribed genders. > Is there a reason geek, or goth or whatever can't be a gender? There's no reason they can't be, but they usually aren't, either as ascribed genders or gender identities.
- yucky 5y ago
  >There's no reason they can't be So if we're saying there is no reason goth or geek or whatever can't be considered gender, then we're just saying that gender is akin to personality type.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > So if we're saying there is no reason goth or geek or whatever can't be considered gender That's not what I said. There's a very good reasons why, as they usually exist, those cannot be considered genders, and I provided that reason. There's no obvious logical (though there may be a practical) reason they couldn't not have the feature which makes them not genders, in which they could be genders, it's just that that doesn't actually happen. (Whether that's because of social inertia around gender categorizations or whether despite the label being a social construct there is some inherent human function of self-and-other gender categorizations which, even when one escapes socially imposed rigid binary stereotypes they still don't fit is...beyond the scope of what I am willing to stake a claim on.)
    - yucky 5y ago
      Based on this definition, gender is anything anybody wants it to be. To test this, I wonder if anybody can list out all of the genders. How many are there and what differentiates them?

by yucky 5y ago

dragonwriter 5y ago

> I always assumed that was intentional. Well, yes, and I explained why. That doesn't make it less unfortunate. > Also, are you sure male/female can be genders? Yes. > If so, how is science supposed to refer to biological sex? With... exactly the language it does, for now. It is inconvenient for discussions where both sex and gender are involved that major categories of each have similar names, but most discussion of biological sex aren't impacted by that, and “sex” vs. “ascribed gender” vs. “gender identity” can be specified where necessary to disambiguate. It's hardly the only overloaded set of descriptors in the English language. Over time the language on one side or the other might evolve (I though femme and masc might evolve as gender terms, but they have instead become terms of presentation distinct from gender, which is another useful distinction.) > What makes something a gender? What makes it an ascribed gender is if society attributes it to be people and sees it as exclusive of other ascribed genders. What makes it a gender identity is if people view it as the aspect of their own identity in the same space as socially ascribed genders. > Is there a reason geek, or goth or whatever can't be a gender? There's no reason they can't be, but they usually aren't, either as ascribed genders or gender identities.

yucky 5y ago
>There's no reason they can't be So if we're saying there is no reason goth or geek or whatever can't be considered gender, then we're just saying that gender is akin to personality type.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > So if we're saying there is no reason goth or geek or whatever can't be considered gender That's not what I said. There's a very good reasons why, as they usually exist, those cannot be considered genders, and I provided that reason. There's no obvious logical (though there may be a practical) reason they couldn't not have the feature which makes them not genders, in which they could be genders, it's just that that doesn't actually happen. (Whether that's because of social inertia around gender categorizations or whether despite the label being a social construct there is some inherent human function of self-and-other gender categorizations which, even when one escapes socially imposed rigid binary stereotypes they still don't fit is...beyond the scope of what I am willing to stake a claim on.)
  - yucky 5y ago
    Based on this definition, gender is anything anybody wants it to be. To test this, I wonder if anybody can list out all of the genders. How many are there and what differentiates them?