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I'm seeing a lot of people once again posing the theory that undoing affirmative action and other legislative forms of racial/gender equality enforcement would

I'm seeing a lot of people once again posing the theory that undoing affirmative action and other legislative forms of racial/gender equality enforcement would solve all these issues. This doesn't contribute to that theory in my opinion. Communities that are failing to be inclusive with affirmative action would only deteriorate further without it. This man working his hardest to overcome very difficult circumstances isn't getting recognized in the current day. The coworkers who label him a "diversity hire" because of the color of his skin, would all still be judging him on that were they forced to pick another label. Working in an inclusive company and a """inclusive""" company are wildly different experiences, but both are possible under the current system affirmative action provides. I'd be more willing to hear about the critiques of legislation if better solutions were suggested, instead of the vague implication that the world was in total racial harmony before the 1960s.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Here's an easy rebuttal: you can't make people want to be around each other. Freedom of association is not a bug, but a feature. The more you try to force it, the more people will push back or find ways around it. Affirmative action doesn't work, not for lack of try on legislators' and employers' to "nerd harder", but because one cannot legislate association in a manner so convenient that one can assert that it should already exist.
- DoctorOW 5y ago
  If I have to choose between excluding minorities and bigots, I'm fine excluding bigots. The only benefits freedom of association gives is being able to ostracize those making bad choices.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    Your claim is self-refuting. If one doesn't have freedom of association, one doesn't get a choice in whether one must associate with bigots or not.
    - DoctorOW 5y ago
      I'm trying to address this in good faith but it's difficult to see any serious participation on your end. I imagine you're fully capable of reading and understanding the comment you replied to. My comment said in no uncertain terms that I was fine with the concept of freedom of association. I also completely understood that black people and racists aren't going to want to spend time together. The claim I made was that when picking between minorities and bigots, excluding bigots is 100% fine. I said in my top comment I've yet to hear a good argument for making bigot-friendly compromises, and your meritless "This claim is self-refuting" and then changing the subject without addressing my point is very much an example of bad argument.

Dracophoenix 5y ago

Here's an easy rebuttal: you can't make people want to be around each other. Freedom of association is not a bug, but a feature. The more you try to force it, the more people will push back or find ways around it. Affirmative action doesn't work, not for lack of try on legislators' and employers' to "nerd harder", but because one cannot legislate association in a manner so convenient that one can assert that it should already exist.

DoctorOW 5y ago
If I have to choose between excluding minorities and bigots, I'm fine excluding bigots. The only benefits freedom of association gives is being able to ostracize those making bad choices.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Your claim is self-refuting. If one doesn't have freedom of association, one doesn't get a choice in whether one must associate with bigots or not.
  - DoctorOW 5y ago
    I'm trying to address this in good faith but it's difficult to see any serious participation on your end. I imagine you're fully capable of reading and understanding the comment you replied to. My comment said in no uncertain terms that I was fine with the concept of freedom of association. I also completely understood that black people and racists aren't going to want to spend time together. The claim I made was that when picking between minorities and bigots, excluding bigots is 100% fine. I said in my top comment I've yet to hear a good argument for making bigot-friendly compromises, and your meritless "This claim is self-refuting" and then changing the subject without addressing my point is very much an example of bad argument.