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If they would build a car that had removable packs you could have the best of both worlds. Leave one at home charging and commute with the other.

by jcims 5y ago

lm28469 5y ago
It's all fun and games until you start looking up the environmental cost of mining the metals needed for batteries. Replacing all thermic cars with electric ones is already going to be a disaster, if we need two batteries for each car we're in for a treat
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
Hydrogen.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  ... is a carbon boondoggle whose only practical economic sourcing is fossil fuels. Please don't foist green hydrogen fantasy propaganda in response, I've read it, it has no application in consumer transportation
  - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
    Mmmm, because digging up Greenland in the search of "green, nature friendly BEVs" is a better choice. Neither is good. None, there are too many of us with a wish to have all the convenience of current life standard but being squeezed by the pace of life. Get off of your horse. BEVs aren't good for environment. Okay, there is no local pollution but the damage is done somewhere else. The problem with electricity is the storage. Using electricity to produce hydrogen locally is a method to store said electricity. Hence: hydrogen.
    - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
      "Okay, there is no local pollution but the damage is done somewhere else." Is that the old coal/nat gas trope that the fossil fuel a-holes trot out to FUD? Have you looked at LCOE for coal? And nat gas is about to be economically uncompetitive as well compared to alt energy, without subsidies. If there was a proper carbon tax, then it wouldn't be close. Power companies lose money on coal, and are breaking even natural gas. They will be strongly incentivized by economics, not LIB-UR-AL REG-U-LATION, to get rid of that stuff as quickly as possible. Solar/wind is STILL dropping. Things have slowed in the LCOE graph, but I wonder how much of that price drop slowdown is inflation. If you're talking about battery materials and car construction, that is, AT WORST, the same as building an ICE vehicle... except ICE vehicles have about a 100+ more components and parts than an EV. LFP chemistry (and hopefully sodium ion) batteries will be very cheap. Cobalt/Nickel chemistries are rapidly becoming the domain of vanity and luxury cars... the 300 mile LFP/Sodium car is probably about a year away, but it is coming. EVs will drive research into Carbon Fiber as well: hopefully we get an breakthrough like the Bessemer process or Haber process that will deliver low-energy economical carbon fiber bodies. ICE/Big Oil never cared about that. As for hydrogen as grid storage, well, you're just proving my point that it is inapplicable to consumer transport. Thermodynamic losses for hydrogen generation, even temporary, will make it noncompetitive once mass scale LFP/Sodium or other grid storage chemistries hit the big time. Sure throw some research towards Hydrogen and fuel cells. They do have potential in aviation and long haul trucking/shipping. Just like we should throw some research at LFTR and next-gen nuclear. You might as well have said "MONORAIL!"

If they would build a car that had removable packs you could have the best of both worlds. Leave one at home charging and commute with the other.

by jcims 5y ago

If they would build a car that had removable packs you could have the best of both worlds. Leave one at home charging and commute with the other.

lm28469 5y ago

It's all fun and games until you start looking up the environmental cost of mining the metals needed for batteries. Replacing all thermic cars with electric ones is already going to be a disaster, if we need two batteries for each car we're in for a treat

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

Hydrogen.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago
... is a carbon boondoggle whose only practical economic sourcing is fossil fuels. Please don't foist green hydrogen fantasy propaganda in response, I've read it, it has no application in consumer transportation
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  Mmmm, because digging up Greenland in the search of "green, nature friendly BEVs" is a better choice. Neither is good. None, there are too many of us with a wish to have all the convenience of current life standard but being squeezed by the pace of life. Get off of your horse. BEVs aren't good for environment. Okay, there is no local pollution but the damage is done somewhere else. The problem with electricity is the storage. Using electricity to produce hydrogen locally is a method to store said electricity. Hence: hydrogen.
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    "Okay, there is no local pollution but the damage is done somewhere else." Is that the old coal/nat gas trope that the fossil fuel a-holes trot out to FUD? Have you looked at LCOE for coal? And nat gas is about to be economically uncompetitive as well compared to alt energy, without subsidies. If there was a proper carbon tax, then it wouldn't be close. Power companies lose money on coal, and are breaking even natural gas. They will be strongly incentivized by economics, not LIB-UR-AL REG-U-LATION, to get rid of that stuff as quickly as possible. Solar/wind is STILL dropping. Things have slowed in the LCOE graph, but I wonder how much of that price drop slowdown is inflation. If you're talking about battery materials and car construction, that is, AT WORST, the same as building an ICE vehicle... except ICE vehicles have about a 100+ more components and parts than an EV. LFP chemistry (and hopefully sodium ion) batteries will be very cheap. Cobalt/Nickel chemistries are rapidly becoming the domain of vanity and luxury cars... the 300 mile LFP/Sodium car is probably about a year away, but it is coming. EVs will drive research into Carbon Fiber as well: hopefully we get an breakthrough like the Bessemer process or Haber process that will deliver low-energy economical carbon fiber bodies. ICE/Big Oil never cared about that. As for hydrogen as grid storage, well, you're just proving my point that it is inapplicable to consumer transport. Thermodynamic losses for hydrogen generation, even temporary, will make it noncompetitive once mass scale LFP/Sodium or other grid storage chemistries hit the big time. Sure throw some research towards Hydrogen and fuel cells. They do have potential in aviation and long haul trucking/shipping. Just like we should throw some research at LFTR and next-gen nuclear. You might as well have said "MONORAIL!"