4 ms·

Ask HN: Why did BBC broadcast James Burke's “Connections” when it's so wrong?

2 points by labrador 5y ago

iseanstevens 5y ago
Wrong how?
- labrador 5y ago
  Watch it and start fact checking as you go along. It's mostly "facts" for entertainment purposes.
  - MilnerRoute 5y ago
    Just following up. So by putting "facts" in quotation marks, you're saying that they're not real facts (and implying inaccuracy). Are there specific examples you'd want to share? I remember that show as a roaring river of information, all delivered with Burke's speedy narration. So if there's something that seems off after 40-plus years, I think I'd still be inclined to accept the larger context of information in which it appears.
    - labrador 5y ago
      From my other comment: > his claim that freeze drying was invented by the coffee industry in S. America because they had extra beans is easily proven false by 2 minutes of research The show should be called "Associations" because that would be more accurate. He puts things together that have no connection beyond sharing one or two properties. I loved the show, don't get my wrong, but viewing it later in life showed me it wasn't what I thought it was
      - eesmith 5y ago
        He doesn't say it was invented by the coffee industry in S. America. He says it was invented by the Nestlé company. Starting at 1:49 at https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-numbers/Connections+3-05+Life+Is+No+Picnic.mp4 https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-number... he describes how Brazil has a coffee surplus, there's no way to sell it all, then Nestlé comes up with the answer.
  - salawat 5y ago
    I would recommend not playing historian if you aren't going to follow through with primary sources; as history is descriptive, and dynamic as new information and documentation comes to light; a great deal of time being spent by actual historians of resolving the implications on new finds on the existing records. I'm not saying not to do it mind, but it's easier to come forward with concrete examples. I see several others are already running things down, but in an environment where attention is the primary constraint, it is often considered polite to bring your citations with you. That way everyone can quickly home in on the relevant info. I'm not going to get on the soapbox on what passes for fact-checking these days. Any college student in a history class probably knows why the contemporary notion is... less than ideal.
labrador 5y ago
I sampled it again and right off the bat, his claim that freeze drying was invented by the coffee industry in S. America because they had extra beans is easily proven false by 2 minutes of research and his further claim that this led to easier supply of troops in WW2 is no connection at all. His show was a bunch of random facts strung together for the flimsiest of reasons. Did the BBC know this and only broadcast it because it was entertaining and the audience didn't have the internet at the time? Or am I missing something about Connections? Burke seems like a smart guy.
- eesmith 5y ago
  What exactly did Burke say that was easily proven false by 2 minutes of research? I found "Freeze-Drying of Pharmaceutical and Food Products" at https://books.google.com/books?id=WopwAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=8T9Q0UayZN&pg=PA1#v=onepage https://books.google.com/books?id=WopwAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=8... with "Brief history of freeze-drying technology". > There were three events which had the milestone significance in the early development in freeze-drying technology: > (1) Earl W. Flosdorf and Stuart Mudd from University of Pennsylvania successfully preserved the human serum by freeze-drying using glass apparatus in 1933 > (2) During World War II, the freeze-drying process was developed commercially when it was used to preserve blood plasma and penicillin. Howard Walter Florey and Ernst Boris Chain, the scientists who followed up most successfully on Alexander Fleming's discovery of penicillin in 1928, devised the method to store the penicillin by freeze-drying in 1938, and made great contribution to clinical application during World War II. The three scientists were awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine in 1945. Several years later, Charles Merieux (French virologist) made the freeze drying as a regular technology for vaccine preservation. > (3) In 1930, Nestlé's chairman was approached by the Brazilian Coffee Institute and asked to develop coffee that was soluble in hot water and retaining its flavor. At the time, Brazil had a huge coffee surplus. After seven years of painstaking research at the Nestlé research centre laboratory in Switzerland, scientist Max Mortgenthaler invented freeze-dried coffee and the powered coffee was first produced in 1938, which led to the development of powdered food products. That last sounds close enough to your summary that I would have to know more exactly what Burke said. It looks like it was from "Life is No Picnic" in Connections 3, available from https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-numbers/Connections+3-05+Life+Is+No+Picnic.mp4 https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-number... . It seems a decent match. https://tomharperkelly.com/breakfastkration/ https://tomharperkelly.com/breakfastkration/ describes how US Army Rations had soluble coffee in the First World War, but it wasn't until "1940 [when] the Army adopted "Nescafe," a product of Nestle's Milk Products, Incorporated, for its C Ration. Nescafe combined soluble coffee with maltose, dextrine, and dextrole to improve the coffee's taste and aroma.", and coffee was later used in the K-rations, as Burke mentioned. I haven't been able to find if "Nescafe" is indeed freeze-dried coffee, or something else. But my two-minute search suggests it is.
jleyank 5y ago
Well. Googling says freeze drying was invented in France and that the first food to be processed was coffee. So perhaps both of you are right.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
MilnerRoute 5y ago
The series was produced and directed by Mick Jackson of the BBC Science and Features Department, according to Wikipedia. (So that might be the answer to your BBC question.) But I've never heard anyone question its accuracy. (Over many years, for what that's worth.) Acknowledging my biases, I watched that show when I was young, and I'd really loved it. There's no other show like it. The New York Times reports "It took more than two years to make, was filmed at 150 locations in 22 countries and cost 51.5 million." https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/21/archives/pbss-connections-the-many-sides-of-technology-a-review.html https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/21/archives/pbss-connections...
simonblack 5y ago
The 'connections' aren't exact. There is a lot of poetic licence. It's entertainment that is an easy way of giving you lots of general knowledge. The important word in my statements above is 'entertainment'. He also had a monthly 'connections' series of articles in Scientific American for several years. They were very entertaining too.

2 points by labrador 5y ago

iseanstevens 5y ago

Wrong how?

labrador 5y ago
Watch it and start fact checking as you go along. It's mostly "facts" for entertainment purposes.
- MilnerRoute 5y ago
  Just following up. So by putting "facts" in quotation marks, you're saying that they're not real facts (and implying inaccuracy). Are there specific examples you'd want to share? I remember that show as a roaring river of information, all delivered with Burke's speedy narration. So if there's something that seems off after 40-plus years, I think I'd still be inclined to accept the larger context of information in which it appears.
  - labrador 5y ago
    From my other comment: > his claim that freeze drying was invented by the coffee industry in S. America because they had extra beans is easily proven false by 2 minutes of research The show should be called "Associations" because that would be more accurate. He puts things together that have no connection beyond sharing one or two properties. I loved the show, don't get my wrong, but viewing it later in life showed me it wasn't what I thought it was
    - eesmith 5y ago
      He doesn't say it was invented by the coffee industry in S. America. He says it was invented by the Nestlé company. Starting at 1:49 at https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-numbers/Connections+3-05+Life+Is+No+Picnic.mp4 https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-number... he describes how Brazil has a coffee surplus, there's no way to sell it all, then Nestlé comes up with the answer.
- salawat 5y ago
  I would recommend not playing historian if you aren't going to follow through with primary sources; as history is descriptive, and dynamic as new information and documentation comes to light; a great deal of time being spent by actual historians of resolving the implications on new finds on the existing records. I'm not saying not to do it mind, but it's easier to come forward with concrete examples. I see several others are already running things down, but in an environment where attention is the primary constraint, it is often considered polite to bring your citations with you. That way everyone can quickly home in on the relevant info. I'm not going to get on the soapbox on what passes for fact-checking these days. Any college student in a history class probably knows why the contemporary notion is... less than ideal.

labrador 5y ago

I sampled it again and right off the bat, his claim that freeze drying was invented by the coffee industry in S. America because they had extra beans is easily proven false by 2 minutes of research and his further claim that this led to easier supply of troops in WW2 is no connection at all. His show was a bunch of random facts strung together for the flimsiest of reasons. Did the BBC know this and only broadcast it because it was entertaining and the audience didn't have the internet at the time? Or am I missing something about Connections? Burke seems like a smart guy.

eesmith 5y ago
What exactly did Burke say that was easily proven false by 2 minutes of research? I found "Freeze-Drying of Pharmaceutical and Food Products" at https://books.google.com/books?id=WopwAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=8T9Q0UayZN&pg=PA1#v=onepage https://books.google.com/books?id=WopwAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=8... with "Brief history of freeze-drying technology". > There were three events which had the milestone significance in the early development in freeze-drying technology: > (1) Earl W. Flosdorf and Stuart Mudd from University of Pennsylvania successfully preserved the human serum by freeze-drying using glass apparatus in 1933 > (2) During World War II, the freeze-drying process was developed commercially when it was used to preserve blood plasma and penicillin. Howard Walter Florey and Ernst Boris Chain, the scientists who followed up most successfully on Alexander Fleming's discovery of penicillin in 1928, devised the method to store the penicillin by freeze-drying in 1938, and made great contribution to clinical application during World War II. The three scientists were awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine in 1945. Several years later, Charles Merieux (French virologist) made the freeze drying as a regular technology for vaccine preservation. > (3) In 1930, Nestlé's chairman was approached by the Brazilian Coffee Institute and asked to develop coffee that was soluble in hot water and retaining its flavor. At the time, Brazil had a huge coffee surplus. After seven years of painstaking research at the Nestlé research centre laboratory in Switzerland, scientist Max Mortgenthaler invented freeze-dried coffee and the powered coffee was first produced in 1938, which led to the development of powdered food products. That last sounds close enough to your summary that I would have to know more exactly what Burke said. It looks like it was from "Life is No Picnic" in Connections 3, available from https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-numbers/Connections+3-05+Life+Is+No+Picnic.mp4 https://archive.org/details/connections-1-04-faith-in-number... . It seems a decent match. https://tomharperkelly.com/breakfastkration/ https://tomharperkelly.com/breakfastkration/ describes how US Army Rations had soluble coffee in the First World War, but it wasn't until "1940 [when] the Army adopted "Nescafe," a product of Nestle's Milk Products, Incorporated, for its C Ration. Nescafe combined soluble coffee with maltose, dextrine, and dextrole to improve the coffee's taste and aroma.", and coffee was later used in the K-rations, as Burke mentioned. I haven't been able to find if "Nescafe" is indeed freeze-dried coffee, or something else. But my two-minute search suggests it is.

jleyank 5y ago

Well. Googling says freeze drying was invented in France and that the first food to be processed was coffee. So perhaps both of you are right.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

MilnerRoute 5y ago

The series was produced and directed by Mick Jackson of the BBC Science and Features Department, according to Wikipedia. (So that might be the answer to your BBC question.) But I've never heard anyone question its accuracy. (Over many years, for what that's worth.) Acknowledging my biases, I watched that show when I was young, and I'd really loved it. There's no other show like it. The New York Times reports "It took more than two years to make, was filmed at 150 locations in 22 countries and cost 51.5 million." https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/21/archives/pbss-connections-the-many-sides-of-technology-a-review.html https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/21/archives/pbss-connections...

simonblack 5y ago

The 'connections' aren't exact. There is a lot of poetic licence. It's entertainment that is an easy way of giving you lots of general knowledge. The important word in my statements above is 'entertainment'. He also had a monthly 'connections' series of articles in Scientific American for several years. They were very entertaining too.