8 ms·

Being black in tech is exhausting

43 points by Victerius 5y ago

Irongirl1 5y ago
Tbh, being Black in America is exhausting. I can't read the original post because its' been deleted from reddit, but if I could recoup all the time I used to spend "preparing" to go on errands or to work etc it would probably add upto several years. I used to plan out my "missions" outside my house like they were military missions. Who was I going to see..who would see me, do I have too many pockets on my clothing, is my outfit too ethnic and on and on and on. The goal was minimize friction and make sure I had no encounters whatsoever. I wanted as sure as I possibly could that I couldn't be accused of shoplifting, stopped because my pants/outfit wasn't "appropriate" and on and on. It is draining to the soul to have to think about it every single minute, but the one minute you don't and you run into someone like that cop who tasered a pregnant woman until her baby died..... you are dead. And yes I considered moving to France when I graduated high school, but I worried myself out it and I regret it each. and. every. day.
nobodyandproud 5y ago
Are you the reddit poster as well?
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Why would that matter?
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    Because I may have an offer? Your hostility is completely uncalled for by the way. Hacker news is a special place, where the technically minded discuss many things of interest including opportunities. It’s (still) a special place and if you want to keep it that way then consider shifting your perspective.
    - Beltalowda 5y ago
      I don't think it was hostile at all; it's just a request to clarify your question, the relevancy and intent of which was entirely unclear.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        This is true, and considering the adversity faced by the poster I think its reasonable to clarify. Why would someone who has dealt with that sort of discrimination reply to a post with such unclear intent? They could be walking into a landmine, even on HN
      - nobodyandproud 5y ago
        It was their downvote that came with it. Also, their recent comment history. Otherwise I’d agree
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        I actually upvoted you Technically your reply explaining your intent is what I upvoted, I have not voted on the top comment because it was unclear to me
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        In that case I owe you an apology. Someone didn’t like my question and given the dicey topic, I read too much into your own.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
browcount 5y ago
I feel for you. Here in europe we have countries like germany where if you are non german (doesnt matter if white or not) you are basically shunned. There is little career progression after a certain level - a non german managing germans is unheard of. At least in the US there are options as its an open society.
asjldkfin 5y ago
This anecdote supports a theory I've been hearing about affirmative action harming excellent minority candidates. It helps those who would've not made it otherwise, but for those who truly excel and would've made it either way; it diminishes their accomplishments in a way that's unfortunate. It's not like affirmative action is a secret, the buyers in the labour market knows about it and will react accordingly. In some ways, I guess it's similar to how people used to avoid buying cars made on a Monday.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
908B64B197 5y ago
> since we were probably "affirmative action" admits [...] Maybe in the workforce it would be better? Nope. I'm seen as a "diversity hire." I'm starting to think there's more harm than good with affirmative action. It creates two categories of devs when looking at internal hiring: people you know are there on merit and people who maybe got a little bit of help from "the quota". I've heard it (in engineering only meetings) "you know this guy is solid, he went to X and he's asian so you know he's there for the right reasons". Something I have to wonder is are women and minorities... ok with this? Obviously the author isn't.
- xupybd 5y ago
  I think anything that draws attention to race only creates division. Yes it's honorable to try and right past wrongs in the current time but it's very hard to do without making things worse. It seems we're getting more divided into racial groups.
- MockObject 5y ago
  I am a minority, and I am furious that my advancement is besmirched with the asterisk of the possibility of affirmative action. But I am powerless and unheard.
not_really 5y ago
Whatever you say, "Throwaway243523456"
- nervlord 5y ago
clarge1120 5y ago
The Reddit post, unfortunately, is not about being black in tech, but about being black a man that is gay and feminine. It’s a very different experience from being merely black in tech. I read the whole post, initially because of the title, looking to connect with what he says. Except for the fact that being black in tech means you have to endure the black in tech trope, I couldn’t find anything that resonates with my personal experience. However, I do have the experience of a straight black man in a group of the same ostracizing a feminine black man in a small town; including the church ostracism. It sounds brutal from the other side. I’ve read and written about what it’s like to be black in tech, and this doesn’t represent that experience.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  I'm struggling to think of an industry where he would find others similar to himself but am coming up with nothing. It's a difficult combination of attributes to find others in numbers. I do have a friend who is similar to the author but he works in appealing medical claim denials instead of in tech. He seems very happy in his job and though I don't know for sure, I suspect that he's not surrounded by co-workers similar to himself. The difference might be that he gets lots of socialization outside of work due to having a very gregarious personality so maybe the lack of similar people at the office isn't noticeable to him in the same way it is for someone who needs to find some social connection at their job. Unfortunately telling someone to be gregarious isn't a realistic solution though perhaps trying to find more connection outside of work would be beneficial. Many of the problems the author listed aren't directly social in nature but likely would be more tolerable with a stronger social network outside of work.
- sonotathrowaway 5y ago
  > Except for the fact that being black in tech means you have to endure the black in tech trope, I couldn’t find anything that resonates with my personal experience. Really? Having teachers accuse me of cheating sounded very familiar.
throwawaysea 5y ago
I have friends at a high level at a few of the FAANG companies. They mentioned that hiring, promotion, and compensation activities are heavily driven by quotas that are illegal and discriminatory, but that it’s all handled in high-level meetings verbally with no paper trail and no transparency. For example at Amazon they reserve executive shadow roles for just women, trans people, Blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans. If you’re a White or Indian or Chinese male, you face a much harder road up the ladder because your merit won’t earn you opportunities. But no one dares to speak up because of how institutionalized DEI programs are. This would have sounded absurd to me five years ago, but even as an outsider I can see that social justice politics are everywhere in tech - I see it when I open the Amazon app or Spotify or whatever else. And I regularly hear the phrase “diversity hire” when surrounded by tech friends (usually in the context of successfully making a diversity hire), so what the poster shared here feels very possible. I feel bad for deserving candidates who belong to those demographic groups - I am sure their experience is especially exhausting.
- meristohm 5y ago
  If I’m a descendant of enslaved people, then sharecroppers, then parents living in the shadow of industrial complexes, it is possible and unlikely that I’ll be competitive for a FAANG position. Likewise if I’m the descendants of people sent to re-education camps (North American boarding schools). What are some other ways to help those who have been pushed down over the years by Eurocolonialism?
  - joemazerino 5y ago
    The racist undertones in your statement is abhorrent. There are many people who hold various illustrious positions in FAANG companies and acquired them through hard work. Progressive statements like yours not only discredit hard working minorities but Europeans as well. You would probably be surprised to learn about how many people are descendants of enslaved people or existed in boarding schools as Europeans. The Irish comes to mind amongst others.
    - duggan 5y ago
0xedd 5y ago
[flagged]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mathverse 5y ago
Being eastern european in tech is exhausting. You dont get to enjoy any privileges that PoC get in the US and on top of that you are treated as the "good and cheap" worker that basically can't really say anything cuz he is white.
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  Being a human in tech is exhausting. All those computers talking to each other in binary, and when you try to communicate with them, they passively-aggressively interpret your commands literally, no matter how silly it is.
  - snowgrove 5y ago
    Your flippant dismissal of the GP comment perfectly illustrates their point.
DoctorOW 5y ago
I'm seeing a lot of people once again posing the theory that undoing affirmative action and other legislative forms of racial/gender equality enforcement would solve all these issues. This doesn't contribute to that theory in my opinion. Communities that are failing to be inclusive with affirmative action would only deteriorate further without it. This man working his hardest to overcome very difficult circumstances isn't getting recognized in the current day. The coworkers who label him a "diversity hire" because of the color of his skin, would all still be judging him on that were they forced to pick another label. Working in an inclusive company and a """inclusive""" company are wildly different experiences, but both are possible under the current system affirmative action provides. I'd be more willing to hear about the critiques of legislation if better solutions were suggested, instead of the vague implication that the world was in total racial harmony before the 1960s.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Here's an easy rebuttal: you can't make people want to be around each other. Freedom of association is not a bug, but a feature. The more you try to force it, the more people will push back or find ways around it. Affirmative action doesn't work, not for lack of try on legislators' and employers' to "nerd harder", but because one cannot legislate association in a manner so convenient that one can assert that it should already exist.
  - DoctorOW 5y ago
    If I have to choose between excluding minorities and bigots, I'm fine excluding bigots. The only benefits freedom of association gives is being able to ostracize those making bad choices.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      Your claim is self-refuting. If one doesn't have freedom of association, one doesn't get a choice in whether one must associate with bigots or not.
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
Can't tell if all the negative responses are a Reddit thing or a CS thing, but, wow. Just ..... wow. What a toxic mess.
aaron695 5y ago
lnxg33k1 5y ago
Being a white cis man in tech is exhausting, because black, gay, asians and women think that you don't like them because they're black, gay, asians and women, while they don't understand that you don't really like anyone and you don't really care about white cis men either and would like to be left alone in your journey to retirement, but need to play it cool because otherwise HR explodes

43 points by Victerius 5y ago

Tbh, being Black in America is exhausting. I can't read the original post because its' been deleted from reddit, but if I could recoup all the time I used to spend "preparing" to go on errands or to work etc it would probably add upto several years. I used to plan out my "missions" outside my house like they were military missions. Who was I going to see..who would see me, do I have too many pockets on my clothing, is my outfit too ethnic and on and on and on. The goal was minimize friction and make sure I had no encounters whatsoever. I wanted as sure as I possibly could that I couldn't be accused of shoplifting, stopped because my pants/outfit wasn't "appropriate" and on and on. It is draining to the soul to have to think about it every single minute, but the one minute you don't and you run into someone like that cop who tasered a pregnant woman until her baby died..... you are dead. And yes I considered moving to France when I graduated high school, but I worried myself out it and I regret it each. and. every. day.

nobodyandproud 5y ago

Are you the reddit poster as well?

netizen-936824 5y ago
Why would that matter?
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  Because I may have an offer? Your hostility is completely uncalled for by the way. Hacker news is a special place, where the technically minded discuss many things of interest including opportunities. It’s (still) a special place and if you want to keep it that way then consider shifting your perspective.
  - Beltalowda 5y ago
    I don't think it was hostile at all; it's just a request to clarify your question, the relevancy and intent of which was entirely unclear.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      This is true, and considering the adversity faced by the poster I think its reasonable to clarify. Why would someone who has dealt with that sort of discrimination reply to a post with such unclear intent? They could be walking into a landmine, even on HN
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      It was their downvote that came with it. Also, their recent comment history. Otherwise I’d agree
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        I actually upvoted you Technically your reply explaining your intent is what I upvoted, I have not voted on the top comment because it was unclear to me
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        In that case I owe you an apology. Someone didn’t like my question and given the dicey topic, I read too much into your own.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

browcount 5y ago

I feel for you. Here in europe we have countries like germany where if you are non german (doesnt matter if white or not) you are basically shunned. There is little career progression after a certain level - a non german managing germans is unheard of. At least in the US there are options as its an open society.

asjldkfin 5y ago

This anecdote supports a theory I've been hearing about affirmative action harming excellent minority candidates. It helps those who would've not made it otherwise, but for those who truly excel and would've made it either way; it diminishes their accomplishments in a way that's unfortunate. It's not like affirmative action is a secret, the buyers in the labour market knows about it and will react accordingly. In some ways, I guess it's similar to how people used to avoid buying cars made on a Monday.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

908B64B197 5y ago

> since we were probably "affirmative action" admits [...] Maybe in the workforce it would be better? Nope. I'm seen as a "diversity hire." I'm starting to think there's more harm than good with affirmative action. It creates two categories of devs when looking at internal hiring: people you know are there on merit and people who maybe got a little bit of help from "the quota". I've heard it (in engineering only meetings) "you know this guy is solid, he went to X and he's asian so you know he's there for the right reasons". Something I have to wonder is are women and minorities... ok with this? Obviously the author isn't.

xupybd 5y ago
I think anything that draws attention to race only creates division. Yes it's honorable to try and right past wrongs in the current time but it's very hard to do without making things worse. It seems we're getting more divided into racial groups.
MockObject 5y ago
I am a minority, and I am furious that my advancement is besmirched with the asterisk of the possibility of affirmative action. But I am powerless and unheard.

not_really 5y ago

Whatever you say, "Throwaway243523456"

nervlord 5y ago

clarge1120 5y ago

The Reddit post, unfortunately, is not about being black in tech, but about being black a man that is gay and feminine. It’s a very different experience from being merely black in tech. I read the whole post, initially because of the title, looking to connect with what he says. Except for the fact that being black in tech means you have to endure the black in tech trope, I couldn’t find anything that resonates with my personal experience. However, I do have the experience of a straight black man in a group of the same ostracizing a feminine black man in a small town; including the church ostracism. It sounds brutal from the other side. I’ve read and written about what it’s like to be black in tech, and this doesn’t represent that experience.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
I'm struggling to think of an industry where he would find others similar to himself but am coming up with nothing. It's a difficult combination of attributes to find others in numbers. I do have a friend who is similar to the author but he works in appealing medical claim denials instead of in tech. He seems very happy in his job and though I don't know for sure, I suspect that he's not surrounded by co-workers similar to himself. The difference might be that he gets lots of socialization outside of work due to having a very gregarious personality so maybe the lack of similar people at the office isn't noticeable to him in the same way it is for someone who needs to find some social connection at their job. Unfortunately telling someone to be gregarious isn't a realistic solution though perhaps trying to find more connection outside of work would be beneficial. Many of the problems the author listed aren't directly social in nature but likely would be more tolerable with a stronger social network outside of work.
sonotathrowaway 5y ago
> Except for the fact that being black in tech means you have to endure the black in tech trope, I couldn’t find anything that resonates with my personal experience. Really? Having teachers accuse me of cheating sounded very familiar.

throwawaysea 5y ago

I have friends at a high level at a few of the FAANG companies. They mentioned that hiring, promotion, and compensation activities are heavily driven by quotas that are illegal and discriminatory, but that it’s all handled in high-level meetings verbally with no paper trail and no transparency. For example at Amazon they reserve executive shadow roles for just women, trans people, Blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans. If you’re a White or Indian or Chinese male, you face a much harder road up the ladder because your merit won’t earn you opportunities. But no one dares to speak up because of how institutionalized DEI programs are. This would have sounded absurd to me five years ago, but even as an outsider I can see that social justice politics are everywhere in tech - I see it when I open the Amazon app or Spotify or whatever else. And I regularly hear the phrase “diversity hire” when surrounded by tech friends (usually in the context of successfully making a diversity hire), so what the poster shared here feels very possible. I feel bad for deserving candidates who belong to those demographic groups - I am sure their experience is especially exhausting.

meristohm 5y ago
If I’m a descendant of enslaved people, then sharecroppers, then parents living in the shadow of industrial complexes, it is possible and unlikely that I’ll be competitive for a FAANG position. Likewise if I’m the descendants of people sent to re-education camps (North American boarding schools). What are some other ways to help those who have been pushed down over the years by Eurocolonialism?
- joemazerino 5y ago
  The racist undertones in your statement is abhorrent. There are many people who hold various illustrious positions in FAANG companies and acquired them through hard work. Progressive statements like yours not only discredit hard working minorities but Europeans as well. You would probably be surprised to learn about how many people are descendants of enslaved people or existed in boarding schools as Europeans. The Irish comes to mind amongst others.
  - duggan 5y ago

0xedd 5y ago

[flagged]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mathverse 5y ago

Being eastern european in tech is exhausting. You dont get to enjoy any privileges that PoC get in the US and on top of that you are treated as the "good and cheap" worker that basically can't really say anything cuz he is white.

Viliam1234 5y ago
Being a human in tech is exhausting. All those computers talking to each other in binary, and when you try to communicate with them, they passively-aggressively interpret your commands literally, no matter how silly it is.
- snowgrove 5y ago
  Your flippant dismissal of the GP comment perfectly illustrates their point.

DoctorOW 5y ago

I'm seeing a lot of people once again posing the theory that undoing affirmative action and other legislative forms of racial/gender equality enforcement would solve all these issues. This doesn't contribute to that theory in my opinion. Communities that are failing to be inclusive with affirmative action would only deteriorate further without it. This man working his hardest to overcome very difficult circumstances isn't getting recognized in the current day. The coworkers who label him a "diversity hire" because of the color of his skin, would all still be judging him on that were they forced to pick another label. Working in an inclusive company and a """inclusive""" company are wildly different experiences, but both are possible under the current system affirmative action provides. I'd be more willing to hear about the critiques of legislation if better solutions were suggested, instead of the vague implication that the world was in total racial harmony before the 1960s.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Here's an easy rebuttal: you can't make people want to be around each other. Freedom of association is not a bug, but a feature. The more you try to force it, the more people will push back or find ways around it. Affirmative action doesn't work, not for lack of try on legislators' and employers' to "nerd harder", but because one cannot legislate association in a manner so convenient that one can assert that it should already exist.
- DoctorOW 5y ago
  If I have to choose between excluding minorities and bigots, I'm fine excluding bigots. The only benefits freedom of association gives is being able to ostracize those making bad choices.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    Your claim is self-refuting. If one doesn't have freedom of association, one doesn't get a choice in whether one must associate with bigots or not.

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

Can't tell if all the negative responses are a Reddit thing or a CS thing, but, wow. Just ..... wow. What a toxic mess.

aaron695 5y ago

lnxg33k1 5y ago

Being a white cis man in tech is exhausting, because black, gay, asians and women think that you don't like them because they're black, gay, asians and women, while they don't understand that you don't really like anyone and you don't really care about white cis men either and would like to be left alone in your journey to retirement, but need to play it cool because otherwise HR explodes