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I agree with all of this. But I can honestly say in my entire career I've only had about two good managers. One of the biggest issues in my experience is knowin

by city41 5y ago

I agree with all of this. But I can honestly say in my entire career I've only had about two good managers. One of the biggest issues in my experience is knowing who the bad/good performers are. Most managers have no idea. I've seen bad performers just let be, and I've seen great performers fired for seemingly no reason at all. Both kill team morale.

skeeter2020 5y ago
I'll add that if a good manager works with an underperforming IC and makes a meaningful difference, it is VERY UNLIKELY the IC will acknowledge this in a timely way, or perhaps even know it happened. The best case scenario I've ever experienced is several years after the fact. That's a long time to wait for some positive external validation.
- city41 5y ago
  Oh for sure. My first comment is pretty much me bagging on managers. But in their defense, it's a really hard job. So hard I've never taken it on because I'm positive I wouldn't be good at it. I think my experience of most managers not being as good as I'd like largely boils down to the job being extremely difficult. I'm not surprised to hear a manager's work can go unnoticed. That's unfortunate :(
hnthrowaway0315 5y ago
I think management is like sorcery. There is no fixed rules and most of it is interaction between people. I fully understand why many technical people shun management work (even when it pays more). Good management is really rare. One in five or even ten maybe.
- ckdarby 5y ago
  One in five to ten for delivering positive business results in a short period of time. AKA these are good managers. They're able to have good results because of themselves. Under promise over deliver. Set lower expectations. One in fifty, achieve the above but are able to produce teams that regardless of their manager in the future would produce good results at minimum. Great managers don't seem to just focus on the business but also leveling up each individual on the team. I think plenty of individuals have had mediocre managers and they would describe them as good. Working with "the best" ICs reshape your perspective of what is a great ICs. Just like managers. Much earlier in my career I used to believe that great ICs were one in 20, then it became fifty and now, two hundred.

by city41 5y ago

skeeter2020 5y ago

I'll add that if a good manager works with an underperforming IC and makes a meaningful difference, it is VERY UNLIKELY the IC will acknowledge this in a timely way, or perhaps even know it happened. The best case scenario I've ever experienced is several years after the fact. That's a long time to wait for some positive external validation.

city41 5y ago
Oh for sure. My first comment is pretty much me bagging on managers. But in their defense, it's a really hard job. So hard I've never taken it on because I'm positive I wouldn't be good at it. I think my experience of most managers not being as good as I'd like largely boils down to the job being extremely difficult. I'm not surprised to hear a manager's work can go unnoticed. That's unfortunate :(

hnthrowaway0315 5y ago

I think management is like sorcery. There is no fixed rules and most of it is interaction between people. I fully understand why many technical people shun management work (even when it pays more). Good management is really rare. One in five or even ten maybe.

ckdarby 5y ago
One in five to ten for delivering positive business results in a short period of time. AKA these are good managers. They're able to have good results because of themselves. Under promise over deliver. Set lower expectations. One in fifty, achieve the above but are able to produce teams that regardless of their manager in the future would produce good results at minimum. Great managers don't seem to just focus on the business but also leveling up each individual on the team. I think plenty of individuals have had mediocre managers and they would describe them as good. Working with "the best" ICs reshape your perspective of what is a great ICs. Just like managers. Much earlier in my career I used to believe that great ICs were one in 20, then it became fifty and now, two hundred.