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This will be a contested opinion, but I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. I've used Tor for a very brief period o

This will be a contested opinion, but I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. I've used Tor for a very brief period once in my life, and that was to purchase adderall off of either Silk Road or AlphaBay (I can't remember), and I'm unsure of what the Tor ecosystem is like today, but not even that long ago, the vast majority of the Tor network was used for crime - ranging from child pornography, to hitmen available for hire, banned weapons, and obviously, for drugs. I did not come across anything meaningful browsing the onion ecosystem, but left with a depressing insight of anonymity. On a higher level pov, anonymity allows some of the most toxic and damaging ideas to brew and fester. This is easily pointed out by the characteristics and behaviors between Twitter accounts that have an association with a real individual as opposed to ones that don't. The difference in what they tweet is staggering. Not to mention sites like 4chan and it's children. Don't get me wrong, I'm rather against Big Brother or ISPs tracking and selling off our data, but absolute full anonymity is just an invitation for some of the worst things to happen.

foxfluff 5y ago
Absolute full anonymity is sometimes the only defense against tyranny.
bbcabdalla 5y ago
I think the Tor Network is similar to the clear web in that it can be used the way its users want it to be. Mind you, if you look to buy drugs on Instagram or Facebook you’ll find many outlets. Your experience is limited to the markets because that’s what you were after presumably. We created the BBC Tor site to help audiences access BBC News where they can’t and also to provide more secure access if they want. You probably don’t know how bad the internet in China or Iran is. Imagine you can’t access any news site other than the government’s own outlets, and forget about social media. We expected our Tor site to serve more users in Iran but interestingly we found more users coming to BBC Chinese, BBC Mundo and BBC Portuguese. We think we are getting more users from Hong Kong and Brazil who are doing it for the sake of privacy rather than circumvention (our clear web sites are still accessible in Hong Kong). At times when the news flares up, we get more users for BBC Russian, presumably because news consumers there want to have access to an independent source of news. BBC site on Tor: https://bbcnewsd73hkzno2ini43t4gblxvycyac5aw4gnv7t2rccijh7745uqd.onion https://bbcnewsd73hkzno2ini43t4gblxvycyac5aw4gnv7t2rccijh774...
- shroompasta 5y ago
  that's an interesting perspective - one that I'll take to heart, for sure.
  - flatiron 5y ago
    Check out dark.fail. Sure there are a TON of dark web markets but a lot of news sites and such. Tor sure is a bunch of botnets and hackers and such but there certainly are more “genuine” uses to that. The alternative is no anonymous internet which is also not something I would want. Also, based solely on gut feeling, the speed Tor from 10 years ago to today is night and day. Something tells me a ton of nodes are state actors and Tor is quasi broken. Not “buy an oz of weed FBI don’t move we’ll shoot” broken but if you are planning another 9/11 they probably can figure that shit out even if you are on Tor. I base that on zero facts.
brigandish 5y ago
If Twitter shut down tomorrow and all it's users flocked to Gab or Parler or whatever network is said to currently be infested with racists, would they all start posting racist tweets because now they're covered by moderation matching 1st amendment rights? No, that's not tenable. Same applies to Tor, it just needs more users. All "good" things have serious downsides. Free speech is good but if you defend it you'll no doubt at some point have to defend its use by a scumbag who using it in a scummy way - but the alternative is worse. Same could be said for democracy, presumption of innocence, habeas corpus or any other of the cornerstones of a liberal society - they have big downsides but the alternative is worse. Sadly, right now, we're living the worse alternative to having strong privacy because people don't see it's value so we'll have to make do with Tor.
HWR_14 5y ago
> I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. Your examples are not things that people are given anonymity and then do naturally - it's what people seek out anonymity to do. That is, you have cause and effect backwards. Meanwhile, there is a difference between using Tor to access regular websites to avoid surveillance and using .onion sites.
newscracker 5y ago
> This will be a contested opinion, but I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. > … > On a higher level pov, anonymity allows some of the most toxic and damaging ideas to brew and fester. You mention Twitter, but haven’t mentioned Facebook. That anonymity makes people to become or expose the worst version of themselves — or that anonymity allows some of the most toxic and damaging ideas to brew and fester — isn’t necessarily completely true. On Facebook, people use their real names, post personal photos (including participation in local events), their location, etc., and there’s still a huge amount of toxic ideas from these same non-anonymous people that brew there and are allowed to (because that makes the company more money). I don’t disagree that anonymity allows people to be more honest in expressing themselves without filters. It’s one of the best things that happened with the Internet. But completely banning or not allowing anonymity isn’t the solution that some may immediately reach out for when faced with some social problems. Usually the people who dislike anonymity and want to eliminate it (I’m not saying it’s you) are those in power or want to be in power. And they don’t like it when people can organize outside their surveillance view.
wolverine876 5y ago
Tor provides access to the regular Internet; you are aren't restricted to .onion sites at all. > the vast majority of the Tor network was used for crime How could you know the scope of the Tor network? Is that technically possible? Perhaps looking for ilicit goods, that's what was found? Tor has sites for the Facebook, NY Times, BBC, ProPublica, Deutche Welle, Buzzfeed, and more.

foxfluff 5y ago

Absolute full anonymity is sometimes the only defense against tyranny.

bbcabdalla 5y ago

I think the Tor Network is similar to the clear web in that it can be used the way its users want it to be. Mind you, if you look to buy drugs on Instagram or Facebook you’ll find many outlets. Your experience is limited to the markets because that’s what you were after presumably. We created the BBC Tor site to help audiences access BBC News where they can’t and also to provide more secure access if they want. You probably don’t know how bad the internet in China or Iran is. Imagine you can’t access any news site other than the government’s own outlets, and forget about social media. We expected our Tor site to serve more users in Iran but interestingly we found more users coming to BBC Chinese, BBC Mundo and BBC Portuguese. We think we are getting more users from Hong Kong and Brazil who are doing it for the sake of privacy rather than circumvention (our clear web sites are still accessible in Hong Kong). At times when the news flares up, we get more users for BBC Russian, presumably because news consumers there want to have access to an independent source of news. BBC site on Tor: https://bbcnewsd73hkzno2ini43t4gblxvycyac5aw4gnv7t2rccijh7745uqd.onion https://bbcnewsd73hkzno2ini43t4gblxvycyac5aw4gnv7t2rccijh774...

shroompasta 5y ago
that's an interesting perspective - one that I'll take to heart, for sure.
- flatiron 5y ago
  Check out dark.fail. Sure there are a TON of dark web markets but a lot of news sites and such. Tor sure is a bunch of botnets and hackers and such but there certainly are more “genuine” uses to that. The alternative is no anonymous internet which is also not something I would want. Also, based solely on gut feeling, the speed Tor from 10 years ago to today is night and day. Something tells me a ton of nodes are state actors and Tor is quasi broken. Not “buy an oz of weed FBI don’t move we’ll shoot” broken but if you are planning another 9/11 they probably can figure that shit out even if you are on Tor. I base that on zero facts.

brigandish 5y ago

If Twitter shut down tomorrow and all it's users flocked to Gab or Parler or whatever network is said to currently be infested with racists, would they all start posting racist tweets because now they're covered by moderation matching 1st amendment rights? No, that's not tenable. Same applies to Tor, it just needs more users. All "good" things have serious downsides. Free speech is good but if you defend it you'll no doubt at some point have to defend its use by a scumbag who using it in a scummy way - but the alternative is worse. Same could be said for democracy, presumption of innocence, habeas corpus or any other of the cornerstones of a liberal society - they have big downsides but the alternative is worse. Sadly, right now, we're living the worse alternative to having strong privacy because people don't see it's value so we'll have to make do with Tor.

HWR_14 5y ago

> I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. Your examples are not things that people are given anonymity and then do naturally - it's what people seek out anonymity to do. That is, you have cause and effect backwards. Meanwhile, there is a difference between using Tor to access regular websites to avoid surveillance and using .onion sites.

newscracker 5y ago

> This will be a contested opinion, but I believe full anonymity allows people to become the worst version of themselves. > … > On a higher level pov, anonymity allows some of the most toxic and damaging ideas to brew and fester. You mention Twitter, but haven’t mentioned Facebook. That anonymity makes people to become or expose the worst version of themselves — or that anonymity allows some of the most toxic and damaging ideas to brew and fester — isn’t necessarily completely true. On Facebook, people use their real names, post personal photos (including participation in local events), their location, etc., and there’s still a huge amount of toxic ideas from these same non-anonymous people that brew there and are allowed to (because that makes the company more money). I don’t disagree that anonymity allows people to be more honest in expressing themselves without filters. It’s one of the best things that happened with the Internet. But completely banning or not allowing anonymity isn’t the solution that some may immediately reach out for when faced with some social problems. Usually the people who dislike anonymity and want to eliminate it (I’m not saying it’s you) are those in power or want to be in power. And they don’t like it when people can organize outside their surveillance view.

wolverine876 5y ago

Tor provides access to the regular Internet; you are aren't restricted to .onion sites at all. > the vast majority of the Tor network was used for crime How could you know the scope of the Tor network? Is that technically possible? Perhaps looking for ilicit goods, that's what was found? Tor has sites for the Facebook, NY Times, BBC, ProPublica, Deutche Welle, Buzzfeed, and more.