3 ms·

Adding that line apparently hasn't helped either.

wpietri 5y ago
I don't think that's true at all. There are a ton of studies that have proved the problem exists, which has led to real efforts to fix the problem. How would we do that without data?
- auggierose 5y ago
  If you want data, take my DNA sample. That might actually be useful.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    As the article explains, your DNA sample will not show how you are perceived racially by the people treating you. And it's that racial perception that has a big influence on quality of care in the US. We cannot eliminate the box on the form until we first eliminate the biased care.
    - auggierose 5y ago
      I can assure you, my answer to that question will equally not show how I am perceived racially by the people treating me. Maybe the people treating me should fill it out? Maybe they should also fill out if they perceive me as rather dumb or rather smart, because that might also impact my treatment.
      - wpietri 5y ago
        Ok? But this isn't about just you. Enough people will answer this question in a way that it's still statistically useful to helping us work toward fairer outcomes. If you would seriously like to propose a systemic change you think even more effective in making things fairer, have at it. But please grapple at least vaguely with the actual difficulty in implementing your proposed change.
        auggierose 5y ago
        I don't need to grapple vaguely with anything. I don't want that line on my questionaire. You cannot tell me it is helping with anything. So just get rid of the line, and I am sure the world is not going to be a worse place.
        wpietri 5y ago
        Again, this is not about you. I get that you have an opinion. But if you want it to be more than one anonymous goof's quirky and apparently uninformed disposable niche social media comment, you're going to have to put in the work.
        auggierose 5y ago
        My comment is already on the top of this topic, and seems to have resonated with enough people. That's really all I expect from my comment. Maybe a little change will come from that. On the other hand, maybe YOU should put in some work, because you are really coming across as the entitled white male you probably are. The question is, is the data you gain from adding this question to every form in the US really so valuable that it outweighs the damage done by enforcing the conception that you are all different and divided by race? I doubt it, but I don't know. Do you think you know?
        wpietri 5y ago
        Oh? What specifically are you claiming I'm being entitled about because of my whiteness or maleness?
        auggierose 5y ago
        Read your previous comment, and it will come to you. Or not.
        wpietri 5y ago
    - ricardobeat 5y ago
      > We cannot eliminate the box on the form until we first eliminate the biased care That is where the article ends: “the need to monitor” etc. But there is no logic to that. The biased care is eliminated by having the care providers not care about race, not by measuring it precisely. You can still record % of people who feel discriminated without doing the discrimination yourself.
      - wpietri 5y ago
        Gosh, if it's that easy, why hasn't it happened already? The truth is that's very hard. And if we can't measure it, it's impossible to tell which bias-reducing interventions work. I get why white people, of which I am one, want to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. But if there's anything that history demonstrates, it's that sustained power differentials don't just go away on their own. In the US, that's what both our Revolutionary War and our Civil War were about, as well as our civil rights movement. And things like the First Nadir and the Second Nadir show that even hard-won victories like those don't last without upkeep.
trentnix 5y ago
It has helped politicians. And that means if the problem is ever solved, politicians won’t benefit anymore. So lots of tax money is spent but the problem remains purposefully unsolved.

I don't think that's true at all. There are a ton of studies that have proved the problem exists, which has led to real efforts to fix the problem. How would we do that without data?

auggierose 5y ago
If you want data, take my DNA sample. That might actually be useful.
- wpietri 5y ago
  As the article explains, your DNA sample will not show how you are perceived racially by the people treating you. And it's that racial perception that has a big influence on quality of care in the US. We cannot eliminate the box on the form until we first eliminate the biased care.
  - auggierose 5y ago
    I can assure you, my answer to that question will equally not show how I am perceived racially by the people treating me. Maybe the people treating me should fill it out? Maybe they should also fill out if they perceive me as rather dumb or rather smart, because that might also impact my treatment.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      Ok? But this isn't about just you. Enough people will answer this question in a way that it's still statistically useful to helping us work toward fairer outcomes. If you would seriously like to propose a systemic change you think even more effective in making things fairer, have at it. But please grapple at least vaguely with the actual difficulty in implementing your proposed change.
      - auggierose 5y ago
        I don't need to grapple vaguely with anything. I don't want that line on my questionaire. You cannot tell me it is helping with anything. So just get rid of the line, and I am sure the world is not going to be a worse place.
        wpietri 5y ago
        Again, this is not about you. I get that you have an opinion. But if you want it to be more than one anonymous goof's quirky and apparently uninformed disposable niche social media comment, you're going to have to put in the work.
        auggierose 5y ago
        My comment is already on the top of this topic, and seems to have resonated with enough people. That's really all I expect from my comment. Maybe a little change will come from that. On the other hand, maybe YOU should put in some work, because you are really coming across as the entitled white male you probably are. The question is, is the data you gain from adding this question to every form in the US really so valuable that it outweighs the damage done by enforcing the conception that you are all different and divided by race? I doubt it, but I don't know. Do you think you know?
        wpietri 5y ago
        Oh? What specifically are you claiming I'm being entitled about because of my whiteness or maleness?
        auggierose 5y ago
        Read your previous comment, and it will come to you. Or not.
        wpietri 5y ago
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    > We cannot eliminate the box on the form until we first eliminate the biased care That is where the article ends: “the need to monitor” etc. But there is no logic to that. The biased care is eliminated by having the care providers not care about race, not by measuring it precisely. You can still record % of people who feel discriminated without doing the discrimination yourself.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      Gosh, if it's that easy, why hasn't it happened already? The truth is that's very hard. And if we can't measure it, it's impossible to tell which bias-reducing interventions work. I get why white people, of which I am one, want to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. But if there's anything that history demonstrates, it's that sustained power differentials don't just go away on their own. In the US, that's what both our Revolutionary War and our Civil War were about, as well as our civil rights movement. And things like the First Nadir and the Second Nadir show that even hard-won victories like those don't last without upkeep.

trentnix 5y ago

It has helped politicians. And that means if the problem is ever solved, politicians won’t benefit anymore. So lots of tax money is spent but the problem remains purposefully unsolved.