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Tesla is a luxury brand, yet one out of ten Teslas manages to show up with suspension problems at the 3-year roadworthiness inspection. That's quite something -

Tesla is a luxury brand, yet one out of ten Teslas manages to show up with suspension problems at the 3-year roadworthiness inspection. That's quite something - one would think that the suspension is a solved problem, cars have has suspensions for over 100 years, coaches before that. That's just another symptom of appalling quality control.

tjansen 5y ago
Certainly true, but when German brands have similar issues, it will never show in the statistics. A 10% fail-rate would bother me if I bought a Tesla, but I know that there were German cars with extreme reliability issues that never showed up in statistics. Like VWs and Audis with early DSG transmissions. Car forums were full with people who experienced it, and I personally know people whose cars had these issues.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  It's the suspension bit that's worrying. When the excessively complex transmission fails you have the vehicle towed to the shop, but the suspension is a safety issue (and you do wonder - if 10 % showed up at the inspection with problems how many owners had their suspension fixed because the car handled funny).
- mgraupner 5y ago
  TÜV is not about general car defects or problems like failing transmissions or the infamous camshaft chain failure of VW engines. TÜV is about failures of your car which prevents it from secure operation like failing head lamps, suspession problems and so on.
  - tjansen 5y ago
    Yes, but ADAC statistics include failures and suffer from the same issues. If a three year old BMW breaks down, most owners will call BMW, not the ADAC. (And some car brands will actually send the ADAC to help you, but they have contracts to make sure it won’t appear in the official ADAC statistics)
    - mgraupner 5y ago
      Yeah, they are very different statistics. TÜV checks if your car is safe to drive on roads, and everybode is obligated to do so every second year (except the first one which is after 3 years). I don't know what ADAC is counting, broken cars on highways probably. :)
arghwhat 5y ago
Suspension parts wear out, and something as simple as worn out rubber bushings will fail inspection. 3 years is quite short, but being a "solved problem" does not mean that no service is required. Nothing is permanent.
- vlozko 5y ago
  3 years lifespan for suspension is unacceptably and inexcusably short. No one is asking for parts immune from wear and tear but people should be able to expect at least a status quo.
smileysteve 5y ago
> a solved problem, cars have has suspensions for over 100 years The Ford mustang and Cadillac escalade have adopted rear independent suspension for the first time in the last 5 years. Coaches and cars until the 80s mostly used leaf springs. Solid rear differentials and leaf springs are still common in trucks. Tesla's have adjustable height, adjustable response, and 4 wheel independent suspension. Other innovations in the last 50 years include aluminium, passive rear stearing, disc brakes, all wheel coilovers.
- brianwawok 5y ago
  Adjustable height air suspension is only in new Teslas, and only specific models. Most cars hitting the 3 year inspection would not have that feature yet. I think older S had a more traditional suspension.
  - aeyes 5y ago
    First generation Model S already had air suspension.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  The technology has existed for the better part of 100 years now, and only myopic number crunchers who drove American car manufacturers to the ground kept the suspension from going into the mustang. However, the Escalade should probably still have leaf suspensions. Its a bloody truck!
- mikestew 5y ago
  Tesla's have adjustable height, adjustable response, and 4 wheel independent suspension. None of which are new to production cars. Off the top of my head, Lincoln and Mercedes are two brands that had such features when I worked on them…back in the 80s (though forward-looking adjustment might be more recent, I seem to recall Lincoln had a system that would adjust the rear on-the-fly based on what the front suspension was doing). So if the implication is Tesla’s on the cutting edge or something, I would bet Tesla could have purchased off-the-shelf parts, and had a choice in vendors, to build their suspension.
xiphias2 5y ago
I bet you people were going fast with Teslas on not perfect roads. I have been doing that as well with my BMW, and the huge potholes that I don't always see made lots of damage to my suspension that I didn't have with slower cars.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  In Germany?
  - ranieuwe 5y ago
    Not all German roads are perfect. Plenty of high way that’s a bit bumpy (although they are fixing it). Especially after the snow and ice periods.
    - cycomanic 5y ago
      I know, but potholes that damage your suspension? Maybe if you're driving 400 in your bugatti.
    - davrosthedalek 5y ago
      Believe me, compared to a typical US street, German streets are perfect. I have seen potholes here a SMART can drive in, and then out....
- robbiep 5y ago
  The great thing when you’re talking statistics is you can basically average over all cars, although not being German there are some interesting points being raised in here about who takes their car where for their registration check. Regardless, the underlying assumption is that a similar proportion of all vehicles arrives at the servicing centre and STILL Tesla is failed at a ~10% rate, so, underlying assumption being similar driving habits (which you have to have) your comment doesn’t compute
arpinum 5y ago
Author lumped together suspension and headlight problems, we do not know the split between these two issues, but they carry vastly different consequences
- xxs 5y ago
  Headlights in 3years? There is no reason anything to happen to properly driven LEDs in 3y. That's junior level of engineering. In that regard I'd expect suspension issues to dominate in the category.
  - snypher 5y ago
    In contrast, there shouldn't be anything in a suspension system failing after three years. Perhaps they inspect for a torn boot, but I wouldn't expect cracks in castings or sheared fasteners.
  - geoduck14 5y ago
    >Headlights in 3years? There is no reason anything to happen to properly driven LEDs in 3y. That's junior level of engineering. That's a bit of a exaggeration, plenty can go wrong with LED headlights. A single bad solder might knock out a bank of LEDs. Bad weather stripping can let water in and short something out. You can hit a bump and knock a connection loose.
    - lttlrck 5y ago
      All those things sound like basic engineering or QC issues.
      - benjamir 5y ago
        Nope. Mercedes C class models from the 201x years regularly use a lot of lamps. Nobody seems to now why.
  - lottospm 5y ago
    They'll also fail you for improperly adjusted headlights, beam pattern and such. I bet the lights are blinding oncoming traffic because they "self-adjusted" or automatic leveling software somehow fails.
epistasis 5y ago
The one BMW I had was in the shop for a week to fix the rear brake lights, at only 12 or 15 months old. The idea that luxury brands do not have problems is not something I have ever seen evidenced by owners. Some luxury brands are know for needing continual repairs.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  That's an anecdote you're comparing to a statistic. Of course anything can have manufacturing defects, but a 10% failure rate is not that.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    The opinion of luxury equaling low repair rate is simply not anything I've ever heard before. Are you staying that it is? I added an anecdote with my personal experience, but an anecdote neither proves a point nor refutes it.
  - mrybczyn 5y ago
    Anecdotes of appaling BMW reliability are so prevalent in the online enthusiast car communities, and shade tree mechanic workarounds are so well doumented, that I would question any statistics measuring otherwise. Lies, damned lies, and statistics...
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
Maybe it's because Tesla is heavy.

tjansen 5y ago

Certainly true, but when German brands have similar issues, it will never show in the statistics. A 10% fail-rate would bother me if I bought a Tesla, but I know that there were German cars with extreme reliability issues that never showed up in statistics. Like VWs and Audis with early DSG transmissions. Car forums were full with people who experienced it, and I personally know people whose cars had these issues.

HarryHirsch 5y ago
It's the suspension bit that's worrying. When the excessively complex transmission fails you have the vehicle towed to the shop, but the suspension is a safety issue (and you do wonder - if 10 % showed up at the inspection with problems how many owners had their suspension fixed because the car handled funny).
mgraupner 5y ago
TÜV is not about general car defects or problems like failing transmissions or the infamous camshaft chain failure of VW engines. TÜV is about failures of your car which prevents it from secure operation like failing head lamps, suspession problems and so on.
- tjansen 5y ago
  Yes, but ADAC statistics include failures and suffer from the same issues. If a three year old BMW breaks down, most owners will call BMW, not the ADAC. (And some car brands will actually send the ADAC to help you, but they have contracts to make sure it won’t appear in the official ADAC statistics)
  - mgraupner 5y ago
    Yeah, they are very different statistics. TÜV checks if your car is safe to drive on roads, and everybode is obligated to do so every second year (except the first one which is after 3 years). I don't know what ADAC is counting, broken cars on highways probably. :)

arghwhat 5y ago

Suspension parts wear out, and something as simple as worn out rubber bushings will fail inspection. 3 years is quite short, but being a "solved problem" does not mean that no service is required. Nothing is permanent.

vlozko 5y ago
3 years lifespan for suspension is unacceptably and inexcusably short. No one is asking for parts immune from wear and tear but people should be able to expect at least a status quo.

smileysteve 5y ago

> a solved problem, cars have has suspensions for over 100 years The Ford mustang and Cadillac escalade have adopted rear independent suspension for the first time in the last 5 years. Coaches and cars until the 80s mostly used leaf springs. Solid rear differentials and leaf springs are still common in trucks. Tesla's have adjustable height, adjustable response, and 4 wheel independent suspension. Other innovations in the last 50 years include aluminium, passive rear stearing, disc brakes, all wheel coilovers.

brianwawok 5y ago
Adjustable height air suspension is only in new Teslas, and only specific models. Most cars hitting the 3 year inspection would not have that feature yet. I think older S had a more traditional suspension.
- aeyes 5y ago
  First generation Model S already had air suspension.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
tagoregrtst 5y ago
The technology has existed for the better part of 100 years now, and only myopic number crunchers who drove American car manufacturers to the ground kept the suspension from going into the mustang. However, the Escalade should probably still have leaf suspensions. Its a bloody truck!
mikestew 5y ago
Tesla's have adjustable height, adjustable response, and 4 wheel independent suspension. None of which are new to production cars. Off the top of my head, Lincoln and Mercedes are two brands that had such features when I worked on them…back in the 80s (though forward-looking adjustment might be more recent, I seem to recall Lincoln had a system that would adjust the rear on-the-fly based on what the front suspension was doing). So if the implication is Tesla’s on the cutting edge or something, I would bet Tesla could have purchased off-the-shelf parts, and had a choice in vendors, to build their suspension.

xiphias2 5y ago

I bet you people were going fast with Teslas on not perfect roads. I have been doing that as well with my BMW, and the huge potholes that I don't always see made lots of damage to my suspension that I didn't have with slower cars.

cycomanic 5y ago
In Germany?
- ranieuwe 5y ago
  Not all German roads are perfect. Plenty of high way that’s a bit bumpy (although they are fixing it). Especially after the snow and ice periods.
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    I know, but potholes that damage your suspension? Maybe if you're driving 400 in your bugatti.
  - davrosthedalek 5y ago
    Believe me, compared to a typical US street, German streets are perfect. I have seen potholes here a SMART can drive in, and then out....
robbiep 5y ago
The great thing when you’re talking statistics is you can basically average over all cars, although not being German there are some interesting points being raised in here about who takes their car where for their registration check. Regardless, the underlying assumption is that a similar proportion of all vehicles arrives at the servicing centre and STILL Tesla is failed at a ~10% rate, so, underlying assumption being similar driving habits (which you have to have) your comment doesn’t compute

arpinum 5y ago

Author lumped together suspension and headlight problems, we do not know the split between these two issues, but they carry vastly different consequences

xxs 5y ago
Headlights in 3years? There is no reason anything to happen to properly driven LEDs in 3y. That's junior level of engineering. In that regard I'd expect suspension issues to dominate in the category.
- snypher 5y ago
  In contrast, there shouldn't be anything in a suspension system failing after three years. Perhaps they inspect for a torn boot, but I wouldn't expect cracks in castings or sheared fasteners.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  >Headlights in 3years? There is no reason anything to happen to properly driven LEDs in 3y. That's junior level of engineering. That's a bit of a exaggeration, plenty can go wrong with LED headlights. A single bad solder might knock out a bank of LEDs. Bad weather stripping can let water in and short something out. You can hit a bump and knock a connection loose.
  - lttlrck 5y ago
    All those things sound like basic engineering or QC issues.
    - benjamir 5y ago
      Nope. Mercedes C class models from the 201x years regularly use a lot of lamps. Nobody seems to now why.
- lottospm 5y ago
  They'll also fail you for improperly adjusted headlights, beam pattern and such. I bet the lights are blinding oncoming traffic because they "self-adjusted" or automatic leveling software somehow fails.

epistasis 5y ago

The one BMW I had was in the shop for a week to fix the rear brake lights, at only 12 or 15 months old. The idea that luxury brands do not have problems is not something I have ever seen evidenced by owners. Some luxury brands are know for needing continual repairs.

sudosysgen 5y ago
That's an anecdote you're comparing to a statistic. Of course anything can have manufacturing defects, but a 10% failure rate is not that.
- epistasis 5y ago
  The opinion of luxury equaling low repair rate is simply not anything I've ever heard before. Are you staying that it is? I added an anecdote with my personal experience, but an anecdote neither proves a point nor refutes it.
- mrybczyn 5y ago
  Anecdotes of appaling BMW reliability are so prevalent in the online enthusiast car communities, and shade tree mechanic workarounds are so well doumented, that I would question any statistics measuring otherwise. Lies, damned lies, and statistics...

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago

Maybe it's because Tesla is heavy.